Oh btw, Stokes - you said you liked Tony Lippett as a receiver - that dude was irrelevant before Cook started throwing him passes. Cook over in MSU is making his teammates around him better, another quality Mariota may not have. Very strong quality in a QB.
Horsehit. You've been dumping on Mariota left and right. Your saying 'you'd draft him ONLY if you can sit him for a year' is you trying to put lipstick on your pig. Cook is a good player but he is an inferior talent to Mariota. So the difference between us is you'd take the inferior player because he's learned how to operate in a system and because you believe that since a superior talent hasn't been asked to do something he can't. In other words, give you the more experienced inferior player rather than the superior player because of something he has not yet been asked to do. A 21 year old kid who by all accounts is extremely bright (not fake smart) and a very diligent worker. Nothing selective there. And Hackenberg 2 years from now is such a wild card--you have no idea what he's going to be in 2 years. I'm not a huge fan, he could end up being Matt Leinart. If you're looking and hoping for Andrew Luck in 2 years, it ain't him. _
In that game I was talking about, Lippett was making Cook look good, not the other way around. Btw, love your continued use of red herrings. Mariota MAY NOT have a quality. LOL. _
Btw, I've seen Hackenberg play about 1/2 dozen times and I am underwhlemed. Saw him live in his first game at MetLife against Syracuse, and while it was his first game as a freshman, we was not good against a pretty bad team. Again, I have to cut him some slack, but that was my first impression of him. Not sure why folks think he's the next big thing, his talent level looks several notches below Mariota, and even Cook. If we're drafting an underhwelming player because he runs a pro-style offense, then we deserve what we get. _
I think I may go with Andrus Peat before either. I have made my feelings known on Mariota. Ridiculous physical specimen, quick release, huge potential, I just need to see more to use the number 1 overall pick. Wouldnt be too upset if we took him, but I dont think he is this lock of a franchise QB that others do. Hopefully he is and the Jets take him. Cooper I think is awesome. He would give the Jets a young group of very very good pass catchers, and would leave us in a fantastic situation for whoever the next QB is. With how bad the Jets have been in the receiving department, it would be a welcomed change for it to actually be a strength. With how bad the OL looks and with DBrick clearly not playing at the level he once did, I'd go for Peat. The game is won and lost in the trenches, and Jets fans should know that better than anyone. Peat is an absolute mauler in the run and the pass and I think he is far and away the best tackle coming out. Overall, I could make my peace with any of the three. I think Peat is the best of the three, but I understand the value of a franchise QB, even if I'm not sure he will be one. Cooper is an outstanding talent as well, and if the Jets dont think Mariota is the guy, may as well get the best receiver for whoever the next QB is.
LOL, child please - you never heard of Lippett before Cook started throwing him the football. 4 years at MSU never topped more than 500 yards before Cook came and started full time. Oregon system hides a lot of QB deficiencies. I haven't been dumping him, I've said some positive things and negative things. I'm just not sold on him as a sure-fire franchise QB and I provided valid reasons why. It's not me ignoring those issues, that's your problem. He has issues that need fixing in the NFL, he needs to be educated on the basics. He won't come to the Jets and be our savior right from the get-go (like you believe). Cook is a very good player, that has tons of NFL potential, he needs to work on certain aspects of his game, but his quest to become a franchise QB is a much easier road than Mariota, who lacks the tools right away to start. Mariota is a great collegiate player that has a lot of issues Cook doesn't have going into the NFL. That's going to hurt Mariota unless he sits down for a year. Cook, a pocket passer that has a strong arm, can throw on the run, can run the pro offense, GREAT attitude, has had great coaching at MSU, ball placement skills are there. There's a lot to like about Cook as an NFL QB. Hackenberg is playing with a really bad team. Offensive line is bad, running game is bad, you don't know who the receivers are. He's putting that team on his back and he almost beat Ohio State. What Hackenberg's problem is, is his gunslinging mentality - it's gotten him in trouble in the past with interceptions. Leinhart is a weak-armed party kid that never took his job seriously. There is no comparison. He's no Andrew Luck either, we won't see a player like him for another 10 or so yrs. He's a better version of Jay Cutler (a version w/ leadership skills)
That's all I am saying about Mariota as well. The Golden Boy is extremely talented, but he lacks fundamentals - can he overcome that is the question. I really like Andrus Peat also, to me it's either him or Cooper. Peat that guy has some quick feet - he can help us against those speed rushers. Brick can't stop those guys anymore.
Child please? I watched MSU last week and was unimpressed with Cook but it looked like Lippett was making plays all over the field, catching underthrows and highpointing balls and making plays AFTER the catch. Lippett impressed me independent of what Cook did. Oh stop, every positive thing you've said about him is backhanded and offset by how raw he is and how "unready" he is for the pros (which you really have no idea about). And I've NEVER said Mariota is the savior from the get-go--he's the savior for the next 15 years. I don't give a shit about next year. What does TONS of NFL potential mean? Playing in a pro offense in college does not mean it's going to transfer over into the NFL. It can help but is no guarantee. And not having pro-style experience in college does not mean you CAN'T be a success in the NFL. Cook is an inferior talent to Mariota and you know it. Mariota has a better arm, is more accurate, has a GREAT attitude, is a better pure thrower of the football, is a much better athlete and 1000x more mobile. I don't want my QB running but one of the things that makes Rogers great is his ability to run when necessary and that's what I envision Mariota doing. Cook is not doing that. I don't want an inferior player because he had more experience as an 18-21 year old. I want the superior talent that once developed will have a MUCH higher ceiling in the NFL. But that's just me. _
Aww you are just saying that because I "bashed" Mariota, but Cook was decent last week - made some nice throws, no-where near a finished product but the kid looks good. He runs the offense pretty smooth and like I said before, I think Cook goes back to school for 1 more yr. Let's not forget it was Windy conditions in Michigan that day, and he did not turn the ball over. Cook's glaring weakness is footwork which he can improve on. Like I said, the road to being an NFL QB will be easier for Cook then Mariota. He will play better because of it and will have much more confidence. Like I said before, there are somethings I like, and some things I don't. If Mariota comes here, you know I'm going to hope all the best for him as our QB. I hope the things I am saying now, he proves wrong (if he's on the Jets). Whatever it takes to get Mariota right? Sounds like a savior to me. Too bad talent, and talent alone doesn't win in the NFL. There aren't many QBs that come from a strickly spread offense that have succeeded in the NFL - if so they were on the bench prior (Kaepernick), they've run a pro offense prior to (Carr), or they show glaring weaknesses at the pro-game (RG3). Cook might not have as much potential or be as talented as Mariota, but like I said, talent isn't everything. NFL is a mental game. He's going to be a very good NFL QB because of the coaching he's had, the fundamentals of reading defenses it's been taught to him early on. He has the toughness of a quarterback who's hanging in the pocket with guys jumping down at his feet, making good accurate throws down the field - I like those qualities as well.
Reading comprehension is not your friend. He IS the savior, just not from the get-go. Even you acknowledge that. But nice try. So you admit you'd rather have the inferior player to the superior player because the inferior player has has some experience in and NFL offense when he was 18-21. And because the superior player obviously CAN'T run an NFL offense because he's never been asked to do so. That's fine. Not how I think. By the way, your comments about the mental aspects are just silly. It's entirely possible that the superior talent might already have the better mental capacity. Suggesting the inferior talent has more mental capacity because of coaching or experience has no basis in reality. _
Don't put this one on me man. I'm not the one who said whatever it takes, even if it means trading up and giving away picks. For a QB that isn't a sure-fire NFL QB. Only think Cook is inferior in is athleticism, and mobility. Both have very strong arms (Cook's could be stronger), good ball placement skills and accuracy - but the fundamentals, the things I mentioned, Cook wins easily. In my opinion, if you haven't had ANY experience running a pro-offense or been taught to read defenses in college and go through progressions it's going to be a tough road ahead. Cook has made players around him better, he can ANTICIPATE the receiver being open. He needs to work on his footwork and stop throwing off his back-foot. Once he does that Cook will be dangerous.
Again, reading comprehension and what you want to perceive I said is lacking. YOU said I said he'd be the savior from the get go. Nope. I don't want my next 1st round draft pick anywhere near the field in year 1, other than in mop up duty. But I DO want to give away the farm for him because I believe he will be the LONG-TERM savior for the franchise. Just not in 2015. I throw out mobility and athleticism as extras. Mariota is a better pure thrower of the football. _
Um, Mariota has the arm talent, accuracy and ability to play in ANY weather conditions. The only thing on that list he doesn't have is the OPPORTUNITY to have run a pro-style offense. Note none of the prospects can read NFL defenses. I'll say that Mariota did play against a very NFL-like defense in MSU this year and shredded them. I'm curious to see how he fares this week against Stanford, whose physical brand of football normally give the Ducks problems.
What will be even more epic is if he is the real deal for the Rams or Houston or TB and we have a really good WR with journeynmen throwing to him. _
Oh I agree lol I'd be fuckin furious if we pass on him. I just think I'd be hilarious either way haha
Someone correct me If I'm wrong, but didn't Oregon run a pro style offense in 2003? Didn't Bellotti change his offense after Urben Myer beat them?
He may never be great but sucking donkey dick is highly unlikely because of what we already know has: -Intelligence -Poise -Maturity -Character -Work Ethic -Arm Talent -Mobility The first 5 intangibles alone before you even go into the physical traits make him a safe bet.
Talking about Cook as a pro-prospect. Mariota has the arm to succeed we have established that. Too many raw aspects of his game for me to love the guy. Cook still has un-tapped potential due to his sloppy footwork, but the ability to run a pro offense, going through progressions it's already there. Mariota? We really don't know. He sounds like a smart guy, but I've seen too many QBs that have said this about themselves and what happens when Sunday comes around? Dude looks lost. In regards to NFL defenses, Derek Carr knew NFL defenses before he came into the league. Apologies though, I meant defenses in general. Mariota is boom or bust - there's no way around it. Oregon runs their offense, and to be honest all QBs (cept for Fouts) that came from that school have failed in the NFL. I will be looking forward to the Stanford game, though I think their safeties are MEH at best. Whatever it takes, yep got it. Sacrifice the future for a QB that isn't a sure thing, yep got it. We don't need to discuss your POV any further already understood it. Get me Peat / Cooper in RD1 then maybe look for a QB a little later to develop if that's the case. Look at 2016 to draft a QB.
