This isn't a fire Rex post, but I was just thinking, there is a chance Rex will be gone after this year, and whoever they bring in to replace him might put in a 4-3 defense. So I was just wondering what you guys thought about our D-Line and how it would perform in a 4-3 as opposed to a 3-4. Now we do play 4 linemen sometimes under Rex, with Coples/Pace/Babin stepping up to the line, but our base D is 3-4, and there are also a lot of exotic formations where linemen go god knows where (including lining up with WRs in the Bears game ). So I am talking about a standard 4-3 where most of the time, we would have 4 guys at the line. It would probably be Harrison at NT, Richardson at the 3-technique sport, and Wilkerson and Coples as the bookends, with Coples gaining back the weight he lost. The reason I was thinking about it is that although I like Rex as a defensive mind in general, one flaw that he tends to have is being very inflexible. He does not really adjust to the talent that he has, choosing instead to shoehorn the players into his approach, rather than the other way around. But if you think about our defense, the D-Line is clearly the biggest strength we've got. I think the 3-4 is more suited to teams with strong back 7 and inferior fronts, because you can do more exotic things out of it and count more on your linebackers, whereas the linemen just take up blockers. But we have guys like Wilkerson and Richardson, who are much more talented than that, and routinely get into the backfield, even in the 3-4. If we switched to a 4-3 defense (based on my limited understanding, feel free to correct me), the D-Line would mostly have 1 gap responsibility, as opposed to the 2 gaps they have now in the 3-4. With 2 gaps, I think on some plays Wilkerson and Richardson cant really turn thier jets on and try to get into the backfield, because then they would leave their 2nd gap open. But in a 4-3, all of those guys (Wilkerson, Richardson and Coples) could just let it rip almost every play and shoot up the single gap they are responsible for. In my opinion, this would let those 3 guys use their quickness, explosiveness and athleticism much more efficiently. What do you guys think?
You make a thread about Rex possibly getting fired after three weeks of the season and regarding an imaginary coach who would possibly implement a certain defense? Holy hell
Like Sapp always says about playing in a 1 gap scheme, "stop the run on your way to the QB"! Another change that should come in conjunction with a change in our base front, is playing more 2 deep zone. We just don't have the CBs to play press man nor a safety with sideline to sideline range. Most of our guys are more comfortable with keeping everything in front of them rather than having to turn and run. While cover is more of a bend don't break scheme, it does tend to provide more turnover opportunities.
Heh, relax man, read the first sentence of my post. It's not about Rex, I was just watching the Giants game yesterday, and thinking about our D-Line in a 4-3. Yeah, again I am not calling for Rex to be fired right now, but I do wish he was more flexible with that kind of stuff. Watching AA alone on Jeffrey was painful. Didn't Belichick switch from 3-4 to 4-3 over the years as his personnel changed? Well, if you are a light DE, teams can run at you. I remember back in the day, teams would sometimes run at John Abraham.
Jets already play a 4 man line like half the time. They have since '09. Rex knows more about defense than us, and plays 4-3 when it's beneficial and a 3-4 when necessary... I don't know why the fans are obsessed with a full time 4-3 year after year, it would be like the Saints going ground and pound. 4-3 is not even synonymous with pass rush, they still have to keep contain on running downs. Let your defensive genius coach squeeze every once of talent and versatility and stop yearning for a generic scheme because an inferior defense we share the stadium with run it.
I guess I can't tell the difference between a 3/4 or a 4/3.....every time I watch our defense there's four guys on the line. (sometimes 9 guys, but that's a Rex thing).
Whether to call it a 3-4 or a 4-3 when there are 4 on the line has something to do with the 3 remaining linebackers off of the line and their alignment between or outside of the tackles. I believe when all 3 are inside the tackles it is a 4-3, when one is outside of the tackle it is a 3-4. But there are still 4 linement (either 4 or 3+edge rusher) either way and much of it can be irrelevant as the technique the linemen play really means a whole lot more than how they are aligned with the offensive line (at least in my opinion).
I have been baffled by this for quite a long time. 3-4 thrives on LBs making big plays in the backfield, while stopping short passing attacks to thwart any quick plays that neutralizes pass rush. Now, Ryan's use of OLBs makes this defense more like Eagle front than any semblance of ANY 3-4 that we know. [Fairbanks/Bullough 3-4, certainly it is not; if Calvin Pace played ILB, and attacked the LG, HE might have a place in F/B 3-4. Other LBs, not quite. Phillips 3-4, it certainly is not, either.] Instead, Jets defense looks like: 3-4 if Calvin Pace [or any other OLB] is in 2 point stance. They look like 4-3 if Pace is in 3 point stance. Funny part is, either way Pace is yet another DL more or less; he seals the edge on run plays while going up against OTs. It is the OTHER OLB that has to get to the QB - but now, that other OLB looks like another DE as well. The crying shame is, Jets DL is so good - that they can play either flavor of 3-4 without missing a beat. If Jets had an AVERAGE LB corps, they would be wrecking havoc in the backfield nearly all the time. Except Jets OLBs look like DEs - that they are. To make the matter worse, Jets have been rather staunchly against investing anything worth in LB corps. Demario Davis is the FIRST high pick they made in LB, and that's a 3rd rounder. Calvin Pace and David Harris are both holdovers from Mangini regime, and who else do they have? FA pickups? Jesus. I've been crying out loud for blue-chip OLB picks for ages - and Jets in Ryan era made exactly ZERO picks under his watch. Jets could pick up a lot of good ones [Courtney Upshaw, Jarvis Jones - even though his medical history is scary - to name a few.] but they passed each and every one of these. This blame SHOULD go to Rex - I am inclined to think that, he doesn't value LB corps that highly in general. Look what he did with Terrell Suggs - Ryan moved him to DE, and Suggs's production was at best ho-hum, as his sack numbers went down [from 10.5 to 8, which is his career low.] while tackles went up by measly 9 [from 60 to 69]. His book on 46 will paint the same picture; he spends the lion's share of the book on the coverage of DLs, followed by DBs - LBs are not that important in his 46. That's all fine and dandy but, LBs are supposed to be the most athletic players on the defensive side of the ball - they are the ones that will stop the run, go after the QB and cover for the shallow areas. Just think about how many times Jets couldn't get off the field because Jets OLBs couldn't get to the QBs in time. Remember Bryan Thomas getting into the giant clusterfuck of people while Manning picked apart the secondary in AFCCG. Or Jets D not having anyone to chase after Roethlisberger in yet another AFCCG. It's the philosophy of the HC more than anything, if you ask me; the HC thinks very lowly of the LB position in general, especially compared to DLs and DBs. While stat lines will say how good Ryan is, this defense will not strike fear into elite offenses. NONE of them. And so far, the only team that scored less than 3 scores against this defense is Raiders. [Packers burned them for 34; Chicago scored 20, with 2x TDs and 2x FGs.]
Pass rush opportunities present themselves when you stop the run on early downs. Create 3rd and 9 or 2nd and 9 and you have a chance to pin your ears back. I am sure Rex knows that, and that is why so much emphasis is placed on our run D.
3-4, 4-3. We play all sorts of defense. Here are some facts: Rex Ryan is not going to get fired Our owner loves Rex Ryan There's no legit options for replacements Threads like these point out who watches us on defense and who doesn't.
The fact is that Rex uses a 4 man front with the alignment you noted as it is in obvious passing situations so the only difference in this situation would be playing Calvin Pace out of position 4 yards off the line and our run defense suffering on earlier downs. We have three stud defensive lineman built to play a 2 gap system and have proved effective at it. Why change it? We're most likely on pace to break the single season rushing yards allowed record.
did you really call rex ryan infelxible? the guy is one of the most flexible and innovative defensive minds out there. 4-3 isnt going to help any more then 3-4, 46, a 5 man line or whatever other wrinkle there is. none of that is going to make the secondary go from bums to decent players or the back 7 go from below average to good. Rex's best chance is to mix a ton of pressure with confusing the offense. thats the only chance to cover up for the secondary and thats what he has done(and done a decent job at that). i think this thread is an enormous overreaction. -The jets are 2nd in the NFL in sacks -The jets are 1st in the NFL in hurries -The jets are 4th in the NFL in hits on the QB we need better personel in the back 7, not a new scheme or philosiphy.
We line up a lot of guys at the line on most plays, but many of them are just there trying to confuse the QB, and then drop back into coverage. The thread wasn't really about Rex, though many people try to take it there. I just wanted to get people's opinions on how our D-Line would do in a 4-3 defense. Many posters seem to think that it wouldn't change things much, as we already play a lot of 4-3 at times, but I don't know. We do play it sometimes, but I also recall playing lots of downs with just 3 guys rushing this season. Also, in order to confuse the QB, we often have a D-Lineman/rusher pretend to rush and then drop back, whether it's Coples, Pace, or one of the Sons. I think in a typical 4-3 defense, those front guys could just focus on pinning their ears back and performing their craft as opposed to doing all the tricky stuff (which doesn't seem to work that well anyway, at least in my opinion).
Again, I just dont see how a 4-3 is going to improve anything. we are one of if not the best pass rushing teams in football right now. and we already mix in some 4-3. if anything, going more 4-3 would likely hurt us, not help. im not sure there is a better system then what we currently have in place. its proven in the past and its proven thus far this season. the looks we give now teams cant sleep an the A, B or C gaps. it puts a ton of stress and concentration on opposing lineman
