I see a lot of posts recently destroying Idzik after the Jets poor start and back to back tough losses. Reading through the posts, I think there is a pretty sizeable disconnect between what fans view this team as and what Idzik views this team as... Idzik took over a pretty bad team talent wise in a pretty tough cap situation. The team he took over had a bottom 5 QB situation (Sanchez), a bottom 5 set of skill position players (no one at wideout or tight end with average backs at best), a mediocure defensive line, bottom 10 linebackers, and a decent secondary (revis/cro outstanding but no safties or corners behind them). I think he viewed this as a team that would need 3-4 years to get back to being a team you expected to contend for the playoffs on a yearly basis, and i think the plan/moves he put in place reflect that. I think it also lines up with the Brady era coming closer to an end. He didnt make knee jerk moves, he didnt throw money at the holes on the roster. He made smart moves to address the areas he could at fair market value and used high draft picks on other areas. He didnt try and fill all our holes at once, knowing it was a 3 or 4 year plan, not a win now plan. i think he viewed us as a 5-8 win team for 2-3 years. _______________ DISCONNECT ______________ I think alot of fans view this as a team with 9-11 potential because we finished 8-8 last year and made some improvements. I think fans really expect us to be a good to, or that we SHOULD have been a good and idzik should have spent big to fix our other holes. Fans think this is a win now team that can really compete. I see fans calling for the benching of geno, 3 weeks into his second year... this also leads me to believe fans think we should be playing to win now, and be looking to build the foundation of a team that can win in 2015 or 2016. Where do you stand? do you guys really see us as a 9-11 win team that should be making noise right now? A team idzik should have used our cap space to fill as many holes right now as possible? or do you see us as a 5-8 win team, who wasnt really as good as their 8-8 record last year, that should be focused more on player development then on winning now?
I agree with you, but I also don't think it's unreasonable for fans to react negatively when the Jets continue making boneheaded mistakes over and over and over again; all three game so far have included plays that playoff-bound teams would likely never (or rarely) pursue, particularly in the redzone. That said, looking forward I am actually very concerned with this disconnect. If we end up 7-9 or 8-8 this season, I would be perfectly happy allowing Idzik and Rex to continue building with all the money they will have acquired by the off-season. However, if the fanbase remains as reactionary as it has been, I think Woody might be pressured to find a "fall man" and I'm extremely worried that Rex will be that guy. I trust Rex Ryan more than most Jets fans, so maybe it's just homerism, but if Rex leaves this year I just don't see how Idzik's perennial playoff future can come to fruition; a new coach usually means a lengthened rebuilding process, and our defense will likely decline. Hopefully we play well enough this season to prevent that bleak outcome. Obviously if we end up 1-7 and go down from there, change might be necessary. Also, back to your own post... I don't see "player development" and "winning now" as mutually exclusive options. We should be winning games with our young players. Obviously they will make mistakes and have growing pains, but we should never sacrifice games for the sake of 'player development' in and of itself. Winning and player development goes hand in hand.
Starting the season I thought if geno improved we could win 10 games but geno may have improved but he is still turning the ball over way to much and making stupid decisions like running out of bounds for a sack instead of throwing it away Idzik may be trying to rebuild but at the moment it looks like only 3 players out of 2 drafts will be capable nfl players
Is New York a 5-8 wins for 2-3 years town? I'm sure Idzik knows his window might be a bit tighter here than in other markets. And how many of our fans really think this is a win now team? Not me for sure. I've thought from Day 1 that he was building for year 3 and nothing he's done so far tells me different. Last year was strip out the deadwood, this year is for steady improvement and next year is for us to be start being truly competitive.
Absoltuely... that wasnt really was I was getting at. It is frustrating as hell when you know you are an underdog, or that you can stay in games if you dont shoot yourself in the foot, only to watch the team constantly turn it over, waste timeouts, and committ penalties. my point is more the reaction of "idzik needs to go, Geno needs to sit, we should have spent big moeny on player X". I agree, and thats kind of what I was getting at in my post. this win now and spend on short sighted win now options with a team not ready for prime time kind of got us into this bind we are in now. I dont think Rex or Idziks jobs should be in question regardless of how we finish record wise. from the sense of "bench Geno" it kind of does go hand in hand. you arent going to develop young guys benching them to get a better chance to win games. id rather go 3-13 with geno then 7-9 with vick
only 3? I'd say we can safely bet on Richardson, Winters, Bohannon being longtime pros. thats 3 from the first draft alone, not including Geno who i think is at worst a long time backup. from this years draft its unknown, but i like Pryor to stick around in the NFL. hard to really say on the other guys taken in day 2/3 in that draft. I'd say he had a major strikeout on Milliner and Amaro, but he had a monster homerun on richardson and winter is proving to be an excellent pick. also, not many teams are getting more then 2-4 guys per draft.
Thats why i posed the quest... "where do you stand"? fromr eading the thread it seems like majority he us as a win now team, or at least a team that should be able to win some games now
Winters being an excellent pick? I question what game are you even watching out there. That guy is a turn style out there. Bohanon isnt anything special either. Youre grasping at straws.
Winters is a starting NFL gaurd and will be for a long time. he is solid in the run game and has come a long way in the pass game. a 3rd round pick on a starting gaurd is a very good pick. Bohanan was a late round day 3 pick. day 3 picks that stay in the NFL are good picks.
No he didnt. I rewatched the game this morning on the ALL-22 angle. he was beat just a couple times. mankins had a worse day in pass protection then winters.
I watch the All 22 every week. Winters blows. I didn't watch last night's yet but I seem to remember Paea or Poe or something for Chicago - their 3 stringer - causing fits for Winters all night. Do you happen to pay attention to the double teams? With Winters they have been giving him a lot of help by doubling with Mangold because he is a liability. The biggest thing is that he gets beat badly right off the snap a lot.. That's why we are seeing the occasional big blow up in the backfield. It's coming from the middle - from winters.
The fans seemingly have all drank the Rex kool-aid about how he expects this team to compete for a playoff spot, not having Mevis / Cro is not a weakness its an opportunity etc. Its the same fans that believe this BS that also see $20mm in cap space and think Idzik is an idiot for not using it to get a #2 receiver and a starting CB because with them in tow they're a playoff team that can compete for a championship. The fact is they aren't a complete team but they are building towards sustainability. I just want to see them compete and not make stupid mistakes. If they aren't good enough to win, so be it, they're gaining experience. My view of Idzik's vision - Defense : DL - They have a strong DL that is young and will be around for a few years. LB - They have a very good LB in Davis, a serviceable Coples, and placeholders in Babin, Harris, Barnes and Pace that will need to be replaced sooner rather than later. Safety - I think they're set at safety for a while but will have to replace Landry in a few years. Corners - It seems like Milliner and McDougle can be competent corners, not elite. Adding another top line corner would help immensely and provide sufficient depth with Walls, Allen(unless he gets moved back to safety), Lankster etc. D Summary - They need to target a corner and replacement LB's and they're set for a while. Idzik is on target to get this done withing a year or 2. Offense : QB - Good Geno / Bad Geno? We don't know what we have. If he can cut down on repeat mistakes he can be successful even it not "elite". Vick is serviceable in his role for a few years, I'd like to see them hang on to him so long as Geno progresses. If not then they need to get someone in that can compete with Geno. RB - Ivory and Powell are set for a while in the mix. CJ will need to be replaced but this is the position that is easiest to fill in FA. WR - They need a true #2. Other than that I like Decker, Kerley, etc. to round out the roster. TE - Amaro and Cumberland are fine. Replacing Cumberland won't be difficult or costly. OL - Replacements for Mangold, Colon and D'Brick need to be drafted in the next 2 years max. Giacomini is serviceable for a few years. Winters is a turnstile, Dozier or Aboushi better be ready to take over for Winters/Colon or this team is in serious trouble as 4 out of 5 replacements need to be on the roster withing 2 years, possibly 3. O Summary - WR #2 and OL need to be the focus in the next few drafts. CJ's replacement can be had in FA. The biggest ??? as always.. As Geno goes so does the team and Idzik's tenure. If he isn't the guy his replacement better be on the roster W/I 2 years. The unfortunate thing is reloading yet again at QB doesn't allow them to attend to other high draft choice needs (Corner and OL imho) and will set this team back. If I'm Idzik I press forward and fill the needs and if need be look to trade a pick for an established QB if all the other pieces are there and Geno shits the bed. If Geno comes along this team is poised for good things for while, just not this year.
Then I'd suggest you watch the game again before lashing out at me. Winters did a decent Job, and other were certainly having more issues then he did. and of course he is going to get help with double teams, he is on the left/qbs blind side. your left gaurd is always going to get some help. Winters is a solid player and will be a starting gaurd in this league for a long time. im not calling him some all-pro, but if you get a career starter in round 3, thats a solid pick. you arent getting elite 2 way gaurds in the middle of the draft consistently. those guys are hard to come by.
Great rundown.... as far as quarterback, I'd like for us to be proactive in trying to poach someone from antoher team. I'd love to see us somehow steal cousins away from the redskins... but im not sure RG3 stays healthy enough to allow that to happen. wouldnt mind hoyer either if manziel gets the nod at some point in cleveland. there are alot of good young guys waiting for opportunities in the league. if we can snatch a guy before his team gives him the keys we could be very fortunate.
but it's quite a jump from saying he was decent and is going to need help with double teams to saying he's a career starter and an excellent pick. All of which are your words
he was an excellent pick. if you have higher expectations then career starter from round 3, then i think you are being a but unrealistic with expections on a 3rd round lineman. he is a very solid player and a legit NFL starter. NFL starting left gaurds get help with double teams. thats how you play it up front. you need to protect your quarterbacks left side(assuming a right handed thrower), especially in the B gaps.
actually the team he took over had a good QB w/ no talent around that QB. had it not been for a sham competition last year mark starts, we make playoffs and are at least 2-1 now if not 3-0 and no one is whining but that didn't happen and we have a young QB who is growing and getting better. he will still have bad moments but he is clearly developing. we must give him time to continue to develop.
He was rated one of the worst guards in all of football last year and is a complete turnstile. He was an absolute penalty machine in the preseason and has gotten beat badly multiple times every game this year. His inability to pass block is getting Geno killed back there. Do you not forget getting abused on that play where we could of put more points on the board after that turnover (just one of many examples this year). I would love to know what games you are seriously watching to think he is "excellent pick" and a sure thing to be a starter in this league for a long time. Does he have a chance to develop into serviceable? Sure but he is nowhere near as close to a sure thing as you are insinuating....
