With Vick you have to expect a lot of INTs as well. And right now I think the problem is that the rest of the team isn't good enough to overcome those turnovers...
No they don't. This isn't some two year long cancer pill study. There has never been a QB who played this poorly, consistently showing such little promise as a passer at the college and then NFL level, who then developed into a good or great franchise QB. I really cannot think of one. Please find one and prove me wrong. Maybe then there will be a glimmer of hope. I'm not going to compare Geno to 1st round picks or established future hall of famers but I will compare him to a pair of 3rd rounders. Russell Wilson did not play that well his first 4 games and Seattle was getting killed in the media for sticking with him, but he showed promise and improvement. He could make throws. He was adjusting to nfl defenses. Then it started to click and he was pretty damn good, he was snubbed when they didn't even consider him for ROY, but that's ok he only won a SB the next year. Foles had to sit on the bench a little but he pretty much played great from the get go when he got a chance. Even so he was relegated back to the bench and had to play literally perfect football to cement his role when injury gave him the chance to play again, the guy literally had to win pro bowl MVP before they admitted he was the guy. These guys are the new generation of franchise QB's. These guys were great in college, had some question marks, but then rose to the challenge and proved themselves when given the chance. Wilson prob could've played shitty for 3 games before they benched him. Foles probably only had one. Geno has had 19 regular season games to prove something. He played about 12 shitty to historically deplorable games in a row last year. 2 out of 3 games this year he's been pretty shitty again, and against some weaker defenses too. None of these games except Atlanta last year - and we all now know how bush league that defense was - has he shown potential to be a great or even a good passer, aka that thing QB's are paid to do. How much longer do you wanna try to squeeze water from a stone? Nick Foles - one of the best young QB's in the league right now - if he had a game like Geno just did they would be screaming for Sanchez to start in Philly. The difference between us and them is that they seriously undervalue their great starting QB while we seriously overvalue our shitty one. Why? One guy was a below the radar third rounder that the media never heard of and therefore is still not embraced despite playing QB at pro bowl level, the other guy was a high profile prospective first rounder once upon a time and therefore some people will still defend him no matter how poorly he plays. Geno def improved. I said it a lot. But his improvement is not enough and he just showed us it wasn't as much as we thought/hoped. He still is having multi turnover games. He still making the same mistakes he was last year. He's improved from directly costing us every game to directly costing us every other or every third game. He's certainly not winning us games. The games we win are when we seriously limit his passing attempts and options and emphasize him making plays with his legs. When we put the ball in his hands to throw we put ourselves at disadvantage. That's ass backwards from what you want in a QB. Last year everyone argued that he played poor b/c Kerley was out. Fair point. Kerley was in there today, so was Amaro and Cumberland, and Salas made plays when he got the targets. He was facing possibly the worst secondary we face all year and they made him look like a scrub. Decker being out hurt our game but unless your name is Julio Jones, one player out does not cripple an offense and turn a good or decent QB into shit Good/solid QB's are still good/solid without needing all-stars to throw to, let's look at some of last years playoff teams: Russell Wilson had Golden Tate (overrated) and Doug Baldwin (underrated) - won Super Bowl Phillip Rivers had Eddie Royal, rookie Keenan Allen, and older much slower Gates - revived career, one of his best seasons Cam Newton had old slower Steve Smith and jag Brandon LaFell - best season as a passer Alex Smith had a poorly playing older slower Dwayne Bowe and jag Donnie Avery - best season of career Andrew Luck had (Reggie Wayne for half a season) TY Hilton, and other teams training camp leftovers - still put up 45 points in playoffs vs one of the leagues best defenses Kaep (who is a poor passer) had Crabtree, Vernon Davis and old slow Boldin - NFCCG Tom Brady had Edelman and some underachieving rookies - AFCCG look! Over half of last years playoff teams basically had shit-all for receiving options! You could make an argument that Decker, Kerley, and Amaro/Cumberland are at least on par with almost any corp on the list above. Our rb's are better than 5 out of the 7. Except for Seattle (and maybe the Chiefs and panthers), our D is arguably better or on par with the teams above. Now let's take away Brady and Rivers. They are great QB's and had great years. The other guys (some have greatness potential) were just good/solid. So that's 5 out of 12 playoff teams made the playoffs with good/solid play, mediocre weapons, and good run game and defense (except Indy). The point is, I though we would suck more on D than we do and I didn't think Geno would be this bad still. Walls and Allen are holding it down. Pryor is getting better. I thought we were just fucked on the back end but were not. The D isn't Seahawk level but it's a top end unit and improving. What's holding us back is the QB. Going by last year, our D is good enough, our run game is good enough, and even our much bemoaned mediocre receiving corp could be good enough to contend for a playoff spot. The difference between the Jets and the teams above is that our QB play has been/is so shitty that with this schedule we'll be lucky to get to 8-8 again. A good/solid QB has a chance to take this team to the playoffs. But instead of acting like winners and trying to get there, we're gonna sit here and remind ourselves it's a rebuilding year. Guess what, we're gonna be rebuilding and trying to get better whether we go 4-12 or 10-6. half the teams that end up winning the SB are not star studded like Denver. They are teams like the Giants and Ravens - teams like ours except that they had a decent QB and just made the playoffs and then got hot. I've seen enough of Geno to know where he's at right now. He's not gonna wake up next week and start crushing it. If he plays "well" (like 200 yds 1td 1int - stop the press! we found our guy - TD/int ratio of 1:1!!) then we are just stuck in a cycle of mediocrity longer, until he implodes again. If he sucks then that's one more chance at a win thrown away. I'd rather see what Vick can do with this team while we still have a shot at playoff contention. If he plays well then we become a real competitive team, back in the mix. If he sucks then put Geno back in and let him develop and get evaluated for the rest of the season. What do we have to lose with this move? Geno's feelings? GTFO, dont throw pick sixes. We have Nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Sure, I talked about like 100 other things in this thread and even specifically said that complaining abt those two passes is a trivial, but sure go focus on that. I root for Geno as long as he's in the game. I was still rooting for him to the last play. And if he starts next week I will root for him too because I want us to win above anything. But when the games over I'm gonna look at how we lost and why. I hate on Geno in these threads because he's losing us games, because from draft day I said he's not franchise QB talent, and because everything he's showing us is that he's not. We're just wasting our lives pretending that he is gonna magically turn into a good QB when the reality is that he's one of the worst QB's in the NFL and this team is going nowhere as long as he's running it. Maybe if he sits and develops for a few years he can be serviceable, but right now he's taking us nowhere. Why does benching him do no good? After watching Geno's post game presser I think it would do a lot of good because apparently he doesn't think he fucked up or played that bad. Why is it that our QB can play like garbage and not get benched until the season is lost? Any other player plays this bad and they get fucking benched. Why do you guys see so much potential? Because he can make a guy miss and run for 20 yards once per game? Whoopdidoo. He's one of the worst passing QB's in the league and he's turnover prone. I can't believe I'm saying this but Id rather have EJ right now, he is a total shit dink and dunk QB but at least he doesn't throw pick sixes.
And benching him so vick can come in and do the exact same thing despite being in the league 4 times longer, meaning he should know better, is gonna solve what?
You don't know that. He could suck or he could play well. He can't be worse. He's actually had some successes leading winning teams and shown the ability of a legit starting QB - two things Geno isn't close to doing. We do know where Geno's level of play is at and it's not taking us anywhere. We have nothing to lose in this situation by playing Vick for a game. If he sucks at least they just throw Geno back in for the rest of the year and deal with it w/out a QB controversy going on all season.
To be strait up honest with you I do feel vick gives us a better chance to win. Now this might sound crazy but I don't think FO gives a damn about wins and losses at this point. We as fans don't get that sometimes, butI think this entire season is one big ass training session. I think idzik really wants to get a fair assesment of everyone on this team, and Geno has to get his lumps in now because there gona come a time where there will be too much money tied up into this roster to lose the way we have been losing...heads will roll. We need to know who absolutly has to go and who gets paid. Potential studs in next years fa market and I believe that this years a nessecary sacrifice. My only issue is people crying like we were supposed to go to the superbowl when the playoffs themselves are still a reach. We can't even win our division yet.
With Sanchez you couldn't bench him because your option was Mark Brunell. After that it was because it would crush him emotionally. Than it was well he has no weapons. Anyone think the arguments for not benching Geno for at least a week sound familiar? Maybe a kick in the ass reality check if just because the GM is betting his future on you doesn't mean you can keep throwing away games and screwing over the other guys on the roster.
I like to think I'm a realist. Quartebacks don't grow on trees and great franchises arn't built overnight. It takes seasons in the making building up a core to be able to sustain playoff runs. You put a back on that front 7...its number 1 in the league hands down. Literaly all it needs is corners. AA and Pryor look legit. Now we go out, grab 1 more stud reciever, get decker healthy, put kerley in the slot and grab a TE that can shed...combind with our backs...were fuckin awesome. Then you can look at qb like put up or gtfo....but right now its too soon.
I'd give Geno one more game to prove he's worth the trouble. If he plays bad next week, time to put in Vick. Geno just makes bad decision after bad decision, he can get himself into rhythm but the dude is far too confident in his arm that he thinks his footwork won't matter.
When the quaterback play and turnovers are the main cause of why we lost by a score and didn't win by a score, it would seem justified.
Hell no. It's been 3 weeks. If this continues, then maybe we start considering starting Vick. Keep in mind, Vick is 34. He isn't the long time solution
How much of an upgrade? I want what you're smoking if we have a top 5 or 10 QB on the bench in the waiting. Nobody else signed the guy for a good 1-2 months when available. Why? Just because someone disagree with you doesn't make them a Geno apologist. I am saying you will be sad once you get your wish of a QB change and the same shit occurs with this team. The QB has been a problem 3 games in, but has he been THE problem to make us under .500? I don't think so. That goes to the coaching staff. Its not even close the games you see from Darrell Bavell and Marty. The amount of imagination and not undermining yourself when it comes to the run that Seattle does compared to us is breathtaking. When a team can't stop Lynch or Turbin or Michael, they do not go away from the run. They continue to pound them. The amount of trickery set for Harvin, the way he utilizes his players to their best ability. Its amazing the difference of offenses. He would find a way to utilize Jalen Saunders on offense, something Marty cannot do.
If Geno continues to throw costly picks and take bad sacks there will come a time when it's better to have Vick in the game. We're not there yet.
Sanchez needed to be benched now Geno needs to be benched. Vick is a pro bowl Qb and only 34 not a 40 year old Brunell. Our red zone issues started with Geno in the preseason and are continuing now. he need to sit and watch let Vick play. with are upcoming schedule this season can be over really quick if we don't win this weekend.
Vick isnt the upgrade most people here think it would be lol , he isnt in his prime and he is a int machine too.
