Question for you, if we were win 6 or less, would you consider it a fail in coaching and not a product of a poorly constructed roster?
The Jets gave out contracts to veteran free agents (including their own expired contracts) that totaled $90.4M in the 2014 off-season. Edit: oops had it wrong. They gave out contracts to veteran free agents (including their own) that totaled $101.25M. That's new contracts, not extensions. It doesn't include rookie contracts.
I'll jump in and answer here.. We got a great receiver in Decker, a hall of fame running back, a new rt, a new promising safety, a new promising tight end, new punt and kick returners, a stopgap pass rusher (Babin), and lots of rookies with potential to develop into starters down the road at various positions. He also got Vick in case Smith sucks or gets hurt. He got the best available wideout, running back, and QB. And folks are still complaining as if he did nothing.
funny enough I don't think, that beyond a couple of exceptions, its actually possible to KNOW if one has hit on those later picks till some point after their first year. Who are some of our round 3 or later hits of late? Kerley? Powell? Davis? to a lesser extent Allen? I don't remember any of those guys doing substantial work right out the starting gate. Whose to say that any of the picks still on the roster won't find a way to contribute in due time? It seems that doing so a little later is of the norm for late rounders that pay off, while guys R.Wilson are in the minority in their ability to pay off immediately. Just speaking broadly, (as in, this is not directly related to what you said) the idea that JI has failed to bring talent on the team via the draft is premature in SO many ways. You're right, that if NOBODY from the latter rounds work out this draft is failure, but not only is out too early to tell that just yet, its not even typical for us to know till a while from now regardless of how patient we might be.
I asked what did he address as in what troubled area from last year's team did he sure up in your opinion?
I think the bottom of the roster is far better than what it was in 2012 - when Tanny got fired. A lot of the rookies from that class won't make an impact today but that doesn't mean they don't fix their bad habits up and come back next yr stronger and improved. I think you got Pryor, Amaro and potentially Saunders making plays. I believe Reilly still plays on STs so that helps as well.
There's no way to make this point to somebody who is convinced that John Idzik is a tightwad who will not spend money. The only thing that will convince them that he's not is a bad contract to an over-priced vet going post-prime and likely to be a burden on the team in a year or two. At that point the same people railing on Idzik and the Jets for not spending will pivot to railing on them for spending too much money unwisely. It just is what it is.
alright, that parts debatable. but yeah, JI DID think of the present in some important ways, if only just a bit. Vick and CJ were ALL about now, guys like Decker and maybe Giacomini were thinking ahead while also bringing with them some immediate impact. Specifically they aide in the evaluation of Geno Smith, makes it easier to give him a sink or swim year as its not like the offense was given NOTHING to work with and Smith was put next to a vet or something. Yes in a weird kind of way even JI's present moves have everything to do with the future.
Idzik has spent both cash and cap on players this off-season. What he hasn't done is to spend like a drunken sailor on liberty, which is what would really screw us with the contracts we already have coming due for our young stars. You could make the argument, and I think I'm ready to make that argument, that he has spent every penny he could afford to make this year as competitive as possible. Throwing another $9M a year contract on top of what he has already spent for a 28 year old player would have made us all cry in a year or two when two of ours walked out the door to the highest bidder because our cap just didn't support retaining them.
I said he has decided not to spend a lot in FA and I'm OK with it. What are you arguing about? One thing is clear, I'm definitely not as upset for passing on Corey Graham as you are for it being suggested. Dude, I've moved on from Graham.
You are upset with two drafts that haven't been given anytime to develop yet have yielded starters from. Just because all of them aren't All-Pro players in a season or two games in case of this year's rookies doesn't make them unsuccessful. Let them bust before they general managers drafting ability are labeled terrible like you imply.
Who's upset besides Idzik's army? The poster I was responding to mentioned Milliner ultimately playing "at high level" once he is healthy and followed by other great talent that Idzik has drafted. I simply brought light to the fact that only one of those players are actually playing at such a level. #RIF Idzik's army is fast becoming the new Sanchez hater. While the latter used to be quick to be the first to pile on Sanchez as soon as the name is mentioned, the former is quick to defend Idzik with the same ferocity often times without even knowing what exactly they are defending.
heh. I find the essentially authoritarian manner in which Idzik Fans defend him to be rather amusing if a bit off putting. Ftr I remain on the fence about him overall, but he's made some mistakes along with some good moves. But what is obvious is whether he has the Jets on the right path, right enough that success is not only possible but likely, is far from clear at this point. Ferocity indeed. I even still have pretty high hopes for Milliner, although his apparent fragility is concerning. But even as optimistic as one can reasonably be does not permit saying that he has played at a high level at any time. Injured or not. In terms of draft picks, you are correct that only Richardson has played so far at a high level. I think it likely that from last year's group that is likely to remain the case, although it still might be even odds that Milliner make it. Less than even that Smith will, Winters is a real concern, and nobody else from that class is worth talking about. Pryor was a pick I could understand, but his lack of cover skills is a concern. I liked the Amaro pick, as a receiver even if not a wideout, and he may merely be having rookie adjustment problems. But the rest of the picks? Not much to talk about at this point, although McDougle also begins to look fragile. His FA and trade work is no better proof of success. I simply do not understand the high level of blind loyalty shown the GM by a large slice of Jet fans.
Like you I'm on the fence. Not being Tanny or in the case with Geno, not being Sanchez, is simply not enough to blindly lend my faith. If any of Idzik's army bothered to peruse through my "critical" posts on Idzik, they would see that I don't even call any of his moves "mistakes". I'm smart enough to know I'm not smart enough to know if they are or not; only time will tell. All I can express are my immediate concerns, disappointments, disagreement and/or what I would have done differently. It seems though his army comes out the woodwork whenever anything less than complimentary is said of Idzik or any of his moves, most of the time without fully reading the contexts. Poor Corey Graham had to endure the wrath of the Anecdotal King because I happen to suggest him as a value FA we could have pursued…LOL
Just refer back to my post for all of the areas that Idzik shored up. Of the biggest need areas, QB and WR stand out the most. CJ has over 8,000 yards and will ultimately retire with over 10,000; currently only ~29 RBs have ever had as many yards in a career. He's never had less than 1,000 yards in a season. He's had a +2,000 yard season, which very few RBs have ever achieved. He's had thousands of receiving yards, and a lot of TDs. Also a high YPC, and he's very fast. CJ will make the Hall of Fame. If he doesn't make it, none of these guys today deserve to make it besides Peterson (unless his child abuse scandal invalidates him in the eyes of the voters.) I think it's more the case of- before we pile on someone, let's see if he's actually bad. So far he's 9-9. And people are saying he should be fired and he's terrible, etc- that's very premature. This is like hating on Sanchez in 2009 or 2010. Very different than 2012 or 2013. Idzik could even be the guy who transforms the Jets into a marquee franchise. We don't know yet. Give the guy some time before you throw him under the bus.
When you mention QB as being a big need area are you referring to the staring QB or back-up? If you are referring to the former, nothing was sured up as Vick was not allowed to compete for the job. If you are referring to the back-up position, all we did was swap back-up QBs with Philly. You think Philly wants to swap back? Not to mention Vick is a 1 year rental. If you think the WR position is sured up, then there's no helping you. The Panthers managed to replace their entire receiving corps in one offseason; we couldn't yield more than 1 quality WR. The same trouble areas from last year's roster are the same areas now. In no particular order We STILL lack: -a safety that can provide coverage over the top -a LOG that's not a liability in pass protection -CBs we can cover consistently -2 starting caliber WRs But hey we have a ton of in the box safeties, deep in TEs and RBs (for the 6th rushing attack).
I agree with this. The only thing I would add being, anyone who comes to the Jets, GM, HC, whatever, starts under the bus. They then have to pull themselves out.
I'm not going to post my displeasure with certain moves, or lack there of, in hindsight like a dick. I post them real time so that Idzik's army has crow to feed me later. You just proved my point about the over sensitivity of Idzik supporters, by referring to criticism as "piling on" or "throwing someone under the bus". Idzik gets a ton of love on this site; I'm just balancing it out a little.
When I mention QB, I meant backup QB. Without Michael Vick, we were essentially walking a tightrope with no safety net underneath. If Geno Smith ends up being okay, great. But if he falters... It was critical for us to have Vick there just in case. Mark Sanchez was never a viable backup for the New York Jets, he has too much drama associated with him here. He was never going to go from unquestioned starter to Geno Smith's backup QB, c'mon. You know that.. You don't go from top-5 pick, starting QB, to backup QB with the same franchise. Not in your mid-20s with the HQ who drafted you. That just doesn't happen. Vick was a 1-year move, but it was a critical 1-year move. He was the best backup QB available, in my view, and so he was a great add. I didn't say that the wide receiver position was great now, I said that it was improved significantly. (It was.) By the way, the expression is "shored up", not "sured up." You have to start somewhere- if you think that you can go from having the worst receiver corps in the league all the way up to having a top-5 or even top-10 group, that just doesn't happen. We went from FBS level, to top-20 this year. Next year we may be able to get to where the receiver corps is an actual asset of the team - you don't make the jump all in one year when you're that far behind. Eric Decker is a great player who would start and have a 1,000+ yard season on almost any team in the league. He's a key add. Just because Idzik couldn't find 3 Deckers does not mean that you should give him zero credit for only getting 1. There simply weren't 3 guys of that caliber available in free agency. The Panthers have the worst receiving corps in the league. I don't know why you're comparing the Jets to them. Please tell me all about all of the quality WRs the Panthers have, especially after they let the best receiver in their franchise's history go. Cotchery? He was great in 2007, mediocre for 2 years after that, and then just hanging on in the league ever since. The 2013 Jets were a ridiculously deeply flawed team- the league expected them to win 2 - 4 games, with the talent we had. We're now maybe up to the 7 - 8 win level, based on our talent. If we have another strong offseason like this one, then we should have a playoff-talent roster in 2015. We were in such a ridiculously deep hole before that desperate one-season moves would have only pushed us up to average at best, and then set us back in the long run. I would rather make long term moves and be successful for the long term. You can't go from bad WRs and bad CBs to great WRs and great CBs in one year. That's what folks should understand. We improved lots of areas and built depth, and cut dead weight. Basically, imagine if you weighed 400 lbs. And you have this personal trainer (Idzik) who gets you down to 300 lbs in a little over a year. You're still grossly out of shape and unhealthy. Do you fire him for being incompetent? No. He's doing a good job and is making good progress. You take that progress and say "Well, hopefully by next year we'll be down to 200 lbs if we keep this up." That's the perspective we have to have. We had so much work to do that it just couldn't be done all in 1 year. He's doing it the right way, the hard way, not through quick-fixes that will backfire in the long run (lead to yo-yo weight re-gain.)
