the John Idzik Thread. (All GM Discussion in Here)

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by Run_N_gun10, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know if Browner has the ability to consistently switch sides in a game. I doubt Belihairysnatch would limit himself in that way though, I'm sure he'll have a solid game plan.
     
  2. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    If such a receiver exist, I would think it would be a WR with an unorthodox playing style a la Stevie Johnson. Note Johnson has given Sherman some problems too; I'm thinking that's one of the reasons San Fran brought him in. Revis and Sherman study opposing WRs to the point where they are running the routes for them. The problem with Johnson is that no one route looks the same on film. Johnson, at least that was the case in Buffalo, was either given the freedom or simply took the liberty to do what he needed to get open. So there are no real tendencies to key off. That combined with his herky-jerky body movements made him a tough cover for Revis, who makes his hay on knowing what opposing WRs want to do based on formation, splits, down and distance.
     
  3. CaneGreen

    CaneGreen Member

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    Basically...the team isn't superbowl ready..save the money, evaluate who we have. Ensure you have the funds to pay guys that deserve to be paid. You don't start spending big cash until your damn sure your ready for the big push. example: the denver broncos, cuz when payton leaves its a wrap, spend big, win now. We arn't there yet. People wonder why revis isn't around...he wasn't greedy, he wanted his market value, problem is we made so many retarded win now moves we couldn't pay him. People don't realize what that early sanchez deal did to us. At the end of the day idzik isn't gonna let scrubs continue to steal from us...be patient and win for a decade, or break the bank trying to keep up with the joneses and end up back at square one with shitty books and no playoff wins to match. Just who the hell was worth signing that was gonna make us a contender anyways? Nobody....
     
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  4. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    In general terms I approve of Idzik's approach and have no problem with keeping the draft picks and stockpiling cap space because we aren't in a position to go all the way this year realistically. Sorry for those impatient darksiders out there, but that's the way I see it. I also accept the argument that you don't want to sign players in general and CBs in particular that are aged 29+ to long-term deals and be paying the price for it a few years down the line. Given all of this I still think Idzik made a big mistake. Which is the best signing:
    • Dmitri Patterson, aged 31, massive injury history and marginal production record for 1 year, $3M; or
    • Corey Graham, aged 29, no injury history and adequate production record for 4 years, $16M but only $5.5M guaranteed?
    This isn't in hindsight, it is pretty obvious - the younger, better player who doesn't have any injury black marks costs $1M more in year 1 and only $2.5M more in guaranteed money. The assumption here is that a contract with Graham isn't structured in such a way that we can't cut him in year 3, which $5.5M guaranteed would seem to imply.

    Idzik seems to have taken a huge risk to save a marginal amount of cap space to me. The basic principle in what he is doing I applaud, so I don't think he's our #1 problem - far from it - but it does seem to me that he made a huge error of judgement on this one call.
     
  5. TurkJetFan

    TurkJetFan Well-Known Member

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    is this real life?2 games into the season where we barely lost to GB on the road and the verdict is rapidly coming in? who is this verdict coming from besides the panicky folk amongst us?

    we won't have a real view until after next year when we should have 60$ M in cap sapce entering the offseason.
     
  6. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    We can all hope McDougle comes back strong from his medical problems. But the fact is he got no useful experience this year, and effectively will be a rookie. We also have to question his durability. In short it would be silly to count on him next year.

    Milliner is also becoming a concern in terms of durability. Perhaps he can get over his ankle problem and turn the rest of the season into a showcase of dependability. That would be nice. But I am not counting on that, either.

    With Wilson a proven disappointment playing the outside, and at best coming back with a small contract to play the nickel (ftr I would let him go based on his own merits, but the Jets already have a big enough problem with holes on the cb roster), the Jets it would seem will have a huge challenge next off season if they want to avoid a repeat of where they are now.

    In short the Jets cannot depend on next year's draft to totally fix the problem. Even one high pick, even a first round pick, at Cb will only fill one position at best. Sure, if Milliner does that showcase thing it might be enough. If unlike the last two cb's drafted he plays up to his draft status. But even then there will be a learning curve.

    Considering other issues on this team, the Cb roster right now is a huge concern going forward.
     
  7. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    Cornerbacks are an issue for sure. The potential for next season is pretty good. McDougle should be fully healthy and able to step into either the slot or on the outside. Milliner hopefully plays like end of last season Milliner as opposed to what we've seen this year. He's very clearly still injured. And I like Allen at CB. He's a big strong guy, and that's what teams are looking for now. And with Pryor being a better "in the box" safety, Allen may have more value as a CB. Wilson can walk, I wouldnt lose any sleep. I believe we will be signing a FA CB. I doubt it will be a big money signing, but clearly CB is a position that we could use more depth in. This would push Walls to 4th or 5th on the depth chart.
     
  8. Dreadmadseen

    Dreadmadseen Active Member

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    No one cares what the expectation was...the facts are the Jets were winning the game...until it hit a road block called the Officiating crew!! That's who beat the Jets...not the Green Bay Packers!
     
  9. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with you on this one. GB did not win the game by their merits, but won it by us giving them the breaks they need it. Poor execution at critical times, errors and penalties. The ref did not help, but this one is on us. The "GB is a better team outcry" was not evident to me particularly in the first half. We simply changed our game plan for the worst to make them successful. Coaches and players ought to look at themselves on the mirrow for this loss.
     
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  10. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    The truth is everyone who keeps saying Rex's system "depends" on CB's is wrong. He schemes with what he has available.Yes, it's probable our defense would be better overall with a more proven corner, but the truth is there is proof all over the league that a great D-line can make a secondary's weakness barely noticeable. The Panthers are a perfect example of this.
     
  11. TurkJetFan

    TurkJetFan Well-Known Member

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    Guys seriously calm the hell down... Jets lost let it go...we don't need to be calling for idziks head and jumping off bridges every time the jets lose....the season is young


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  12. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    I used to think that until last year. A great d-line can make an average secondary appear better than they are but it can't cover up bad secondary play. Unless you are playing rookie QBs and/or garbage WRs every week, if your CBs are not playing well they will get exposed especially in press man. Note I'm referring to play and not players.

    Panthers are bad example in the context that they play predominantly zone. However, they are a good example if you think Rex should adapt more to his personnel. Our roster seems better suited for a 4-3 Cover 2 scheme right now than it does the 3-4 predominantly press man scheme that we do run. Like I keep saying, I think Idzik is building a roster for the next coach who, if the players he's brought in are any indication, will likely a Tampa 2 guy.
     
  13. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    We are definitely not accumulating Tampa 2 personnel, I can tell you that right now. It's actually hilarious that you think that.
     
  14. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    It's funny that you don't.

    Milliner is way more comfortable in zone than in press man
    Richardson is so good that he can literally play anywhere in the front 7 but his ideal position the 3 technique in the 4-3.
    Pryor is not a single high safety guy. He'd be much more effective playing half the field along side another safety
    Jason Babin, has played OLB and DE, but has had his most production by far playing the latter
    McDougle played mostly zone in Maryland
    Barnes is really a DE playing LB
     
  15. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Why are you discussing Babin and Barnes in a conversation about what the Jets are or aren't building for the future? Neither of those guys is likely to be on the Jets next year.
     
  16. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    I can only go by the veterans he's brought in and draft picks that will likely see action. Based on that sample, I see more 4-3 Cover 2 than 3-4 Man. While I much prefer Rex's scheme over the "Cover Who?", I think we would get more out of our current roster playing the latter, especially the secondary. I'm sure Wilson would be the first one to welcome to change.
     
  17. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Everything that you spend has the potential to put you in cap hell because it's all cumulative and once you've made the decision to be less than judicious on the cap with a player you'll make that decision over and over again.

    Very few of the contracts that put us in cap trouble were ridiculously over the top. Maybe the Sanchez and Holmes deals and of course the non-stop problem that Revis represented for the cap. Most of the deals were exactly what you're talking about: paying a 28 or 29 year old player over a 4 year period at a middling to high wage. That adds up and soon those players are 30 and your cap has problems all over the place and you didn't develop a cheap young alternative because you paid the post-prime guy instead.

    Signing Corey Graham was going to cap the Jets hard for the Super Bowl window. He was going to prevent other young players from getting a chance to play and he was going to impact their decisions on keeping some of the players they already had. $4-5M against the cap doesn't sound like a big number but in fact it's a huge number unless the player is a star or approaching that level. It's a huge number if you're paying for what you've already seen instead of for what you might get if the player fully develops. It's very possibly the difference between being able to sign all of Mo Wilks, Snacks, David Harris and Jeremy Kerley or having to pick and choose between them.

    People who moan about the Jets cap space at this point are clueless. The Jets have as heavy an overhang from impending contracts as any team in the NFL right now. They have about $25M a year on the cap that is waiting to happen next season, this assuming that Coples does not have a breakout season and force the Jets hand on a contract a year early. Then in 2016 they have to start worrying about the 2013 draft class which will have a standout DT and possibly a QB and CB as well.

    That 20+ million the Jets have on the cap right now is openers in getting the real business they have to do over the next 2 years done. It's also a great target for the malignant metro area media to focus on, leading people who should know better to harp on it endlessly also.
     
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  18. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Corey Graham and his paltry 4 million dollar contract wasn't going to "cap the Jets hard for the SB window" or even have any measurable effect on signing future expiring contracts. That number ain't anything. They coulda front loaded it anyway and took the majority of the hit this year with the 20+ million in excess cap room just laying around.

    It's isn't about Idzik having the foresight to save money or a certain policy to not pay for players at his age or position. 4 million is nothing with this cap, especially when you have so much room like the Jets and Idzik has signed plenty of veterans in his short time here.

    It was all about evaluation. Idzik thought Patterson was the better player and option at CB and he was wrong. This team will struggle at CB as a result. It's not about him refusing to swing - he swung and missed.
     
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  19. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The reason Graham wasn't signed is because Idzik was looking for a one year stop gap while the young players on the roster sort themselves out. If you front load the contract you lose rollover cap space for next year on top of the base salary.

    He's not overpaying for guys whom aren't going to be on the team in a year or two thus eliminate any cap hit they take for cutting him after that.
     
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  20. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    You really believe this?

    You really think that the evaluation of the two players wasn't all about 1 year throwaway value vs having to make a 4 year commitment to a post-prime player?

    I don't think you really believe what you wrote there but if you did, well I believe that you don't understand the thought processes involved in the current rebuild. This despite the fact that they are written large in neon glowing letters on every move the Jets have made.
     

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