That's why having more picks makes sense. You increase your chances of hitting on a few stud players.
As long as Idzik doesnt have a draft where he has three picks and they are 3 below average-mediocre players, I'll be good. He could have handled the CB situation better, but I'm still liking what he's doing. The team is getting younger and there is more talent than there has been in a few years.
I really don't see how Idzik is the problem at all. Look at who he drafted already. Milliner - He has gotten better as he has learned how to play in the NFL and will no doubt be at the worst a very good #2 and an average #1 Richardson - DROY. Will be a cornerstone for Years. Geno - Far better already then Sanchez ever was and we got him in round 2. If they actually build a real receiving core around him he is going to be a great QB here for a long time. He's working with next to nothing and looks better then guys like Manuel, Tannehill, and Kaepernick who have lots of targets. Winters - Been a struggle at times, but he looks better then his rookie year atleast. He is a 3rd rounder that has pretty much been a 3rd rounder. Not a home run obviously. Ivory - Remember, Idzik is the one who brought Ivory here for a 4th. We all seem to like this guy. I know I do. You can't grade out this batch of rookies yet, not after 2 games. There's literally like 9 rookies in the entire NFL right now that are playing good football. If you are going to build through the draft you have to be patient, it's just how it is. It took the Seahawks about 3 full drafts to become a 10 win team, and another draft and free agency to get really good.
The problem with Tanny's strategy is certainly not that it can't win a SB. The real problem in my opinion is the lack of flexibility. Of course we have yet to see if Idzik is capable of maximizing the strategy which he has implemented, so let's first assume that it doesn't go as smoothly at first, then we can assume that it does go more smoothly. If the Jets' majority of draft picks over the first two years of this process don't go well, excluding the picks that I'm already pretty confident in (Sheldon, Geno, Bohanon), we have excellent depth and good cap room going into 2015. Let's assume Milliner isn't pro-bowl level, and even if that's the case he is still an athletic, decent CB. Definitely adequate to be our #2 CB, I would say. We have both the cap space and potential draft picks to do something about that in the offseason, but by going through this season, we at least know more what we have. We have 3 players who can legitimately fight for the guard spots, and if we aren't confident in them we have some maneuverability in how we'd like to address that need. There is always a real chance that Aboushi or Dozier shows some real talent, and there's no reason we can't give them opportunities over the remaining weeks of this season. With all of the depth we've accumulated, we have the opportunity to trade up in the draft and get a top tier player without sacrificing the back end of our roster. If there's a guy we like to be the next Revis, we can make a move. If there's a guy we like to be the next Juilio Jones, we can make a move. If there's a guy we like to be the next Demarcus Ware, we can make a move. The beautiful part is, we aren't sacrificing depth and security to get that player. By the end of this season, we will know what we need, we can go get it without major risk, and we can be confident in the roles that our current players will take on for us in the future. Tanny's way can get us to the promised land, but if it doesn't we're shit out of luck. Idzik's way can get us there too, but if it doesn't we have the ability to make changes and try again. Flexibility is very important in roster construction, and no matter how good a player looks, when you throw $10 million at him all it takes is one injury and the guy you signed off the scrap heap has to take on that same role. If you've spent a couple years drafting a ton of players, the talent difference between your starter and backup is not as significant, nor detrimental to the success of the team. So we decided to throw $4 million at Chris Johnson and $7 million at Decker, instead of the whole $11 million at DeSean Jackson. Decker is out, and so is DJax, but we still have a player who can hit a home run active for us. 1 more year of this strategy, and a game without a starter will be even less of an issue. When we threw $10 million at Holmes and he got hurt, who did we have? Shonn Greene, Stephen Hill, and Jeremy Kerley. We already have much more than that, and we aren't relying on an old and overpaid defense.
And as for Cornerback. Yes we obviously need a cornerback, but you know the reality. Everyone needs cornerbacks right now and there is a massive shortage. 29 corners were drafted this year which was the highest ever and guys were taken that most draft experts didn't even think had a shot at being drafted. The only free-agents out there were Revis, who Woody Johnson didn't want to deal with (not like I blame him), Verner who is a Zone corner and wouldn't have fit out system, DRC who is about as average as it gets and somehow got 10 million a year from the Giants, and about half a dozen guys who decided to resign with their current teams. There were no cornerbacks to go get for Idzik this year. They could have resigned Cromartie but he was so bad last year they decided to just move on. What the Jets need to do if they can't find any Corners in free agency next year is draft a couple and then sign a big name receiver (PLEASE DEZ BRYANT).
Now if Milliner is a top 10 CB, Pryor is a really good Safety, Amaro starts doing some real damage, and we end up with a solid guard or two out of these picks, we have all kinds of flexibility. Who do we spend FA cash on? Who do we spend our first round pick on? We can assemble a versatile WR corp, add to our secondary, and get a very deep rotation of edge rushers, especially if IK or Reilly look good. The sky is the limit if the picks hit just like with Tanny's way, but the floor is stories above.
LMAO. What a joke of a thread. The Jets are 1-1 and their offense looks better than it's been since Rex took over. We were one bad ref call away from tying up that game and possibly winning. I love these "sky is falling" people. Let's get ANGRY!!! RRRARRRRRRR! Why aren't rookies contributing right off the bat!!! IDZIK SUCKS! LOL.
I know some guys have a problem with Bradway, but he has also been involved in some other picks that have turned out well for the jets. Developing offensive players I agree with you, it's not a strong suit of Rex, or anyone he has brought in on the offensive side of the ball. Give Idzik a chance, he was tasked with cleaning up a big mess and has this organization pointed in the right direction.
Totally agree. And I'll even take it a step further. Unless you have one of the elite CBs (e.g. guys like Revis, Sherman, Peterson), it's futile to invest big money in the position because the odds are completely stacked against them. Even the really good ones who make good money are constantly beat. If a CB isn't getting flagged, then he's getting beat by a WR pushing off. It's the nature of the league now. Your best bet is to keep drafting CBs, pay them cheaply for the time being (i.e. their Rookie contract), and hope they develop into very solid players.
This post sucks... the only thing you said that made sens was "its only game #2". You should just take that and run with it. His drafting may be overrated here thats about it. You still can't even say that though considering none of his picks had enough time to even be labeled busts (exclude brian winters though) You see no exceptional talents stepping forward? Demario Davis is going nuts out there this year so far, AA is growing into a fan favorite, Pryor's ceiling is obviously through the roof.. tons of potential, The D-Line is destroying the run, the RB group is solid, Geno is making great strides in development, Decker is playing better than any WR we had in recent memory already, well spent money.. (even though i thnk he's like a T.O. he doesnt go out his way to make a great catch, ball has to be placed in his mits) Our WR's arent even an issue this year so far why are you complaining we need more WR's? Golden Tate & Emmanuel Sanders both are not #1 WR's either.. and they damn sure are NOT better than Decker.. check the stats. Why you hating on Idzik because he's trying to build a team that will last for a long time not be some KC Cheifs type team (aka FLUKES) that wont last long.
2014 Pass Defended Leaders 1 Corey Graham, CB BUF Off-season Reboot Post by: legler82, Nov 25, 2013 in forum: Draft Cromartie can't cover any one Post by: legler82, Dec 10, 2013 in forum: New York Jets FAs the Jets Should Consider Post by: legler82, Dec 15, 2013 in forum: New York Jets Top 50 Free Agents Post by: legler82, Dec 17, 2013 in forum: New York Jets Now That Ryan is in...on to Idzik.... Post by: legler82, Dec 30, 2013 in forum: New York Jets What's your dream offseason? Post by: legler82, Jan 2, 2014 in forum: New York Jets
Corey Graham is 50/50 to be out of the NFL in 3 years. He's exactly the kind of player you don't want to sign when you're rebuilding. He's 29 and he's peaking the last two years and he's probably close to done. If the Jets could get him on a 2 year deal, then yeah it would have been a good signing. He got 4 out of Buffalo and the odds are good they'll regret the signing before they're done. That doesn't mean he won't have a good year this year. Donnie Abraham had a pretty good year for the Jets in 2002 at the age of 29. He retired after the 2004 season. Aaron Beasley didn't have quite as good a year for us that year but he was 29 also and he retired after the 2004 season. David Barrett came on board at 27 in 2004 and he was gone at 31 in 2008. Graham is in this category of player. A decent to good CB approaching the post-prime part of his career. You don't sign those guys to 4 year deals that are going to evaporate on the backend and leave you with dead money on the cap after you had to live though the year too late season where they were no longer a good player. As with everything else in football Graham could be the exception to the rule. You don't manage your team with the expectation that somebody will be the exception to the rule. Do that and you'll wind up burned most of the time because very few people are actually the exception to the rule.
It's been said that the NFL is a 100% chance of injury league. Most players have a 50/50 shot of being out of the league. I lack this special skill set you seem to possess that allows you to determine when a player is "post prime". I just know what my eyes tell me. In Graham, I see a very good yet underrated CB who is smart comfortable in man and zone, played in a defense similar to what we run and cost effective. Based on the afore-mentioned I thought he would help our young CB corps. So far he's been great for Buffalo and has been everything my eyes told me he was. Stupid me I did not factor in the previous signings of Abraham, Beasley and Barrett…WTF? Decker is 27 and he got 5 years should we have not signed him because he might be gone like Barrett at 31? And what rule are you talking about? The one you just made up. The Patriots gave Browner a 3 year 15 mil at age 30; where they breaking the rule?
Receivers though have a much longer window in the NFL for success though, pretty much 3rd behind QB and Kicker. Just look at some of the guys in the top 50 right now for receiving Steve Smith (35), Antonio Gates (34), Andre Johnson (33), Boldin (33), Roddy White (32), Wayne (35). Hell Santana Moss was 35 last season 42 catches for 452 yards, which on the Jets in 2013 would have been SECOND. Just think about how sad that is for a minute. Santana Moss's 1st NFL game was with the Jets when Herm Edwards was the coach and Vinny Testaverde was our Quarterback, and he would have been our #2 receiver last year. Eric Decker at 27 years old for 7.3 million per year was a fucking steal if you ask me. Call him a #1. Call him a #2. Call him a #5. It doesn't matter. The guy is a true 1000 yard receiver and there are only about 22 - 25 of those every year. He is on pace this year for 1100 and missed the 4th quarter of the Packer game. Now consider that his game is great route running, which will decline at a much slower pace, instead of blazing speed, and Decker could be a great receiver in the league for another 7 to 9 seasons.
27 to 29 is a huge difference and as Superhippy pointed out WR and CB is also a real difference in terms of aging. The point I'm making is that 75% of 29 year old CB's who weren't stars have just a couple of years of effective play left at that point. You can't sign a guy to a 4 year deal because you think he might be an exception to the rule. This is true for the Pats as much as anybody. They signed Browner because he was a star level CB with major behavioral problems that have stunted his overall production. He's HUGE at 6'4" 221 lbs. That's not going to change the basic fact that he's extremely unreliable and has been suspended 3 times now and that's he's likely to start losing his physical tools now that he's past 30. Having the Jets sign a post-prime player to a market level deal to play CB this year wouldn't have solved much even for this year's team. it would have kicked the question at CB out another year and then left the Jets in the same place they're in now: trying to develop a young guy to play opposite Milliner. The reason the Jets are in the position of rebuilding right now is that for most of the last decade they relied on exactly the kind of deals that you wanted them to make this last off-season. That's why there aren't enough good young players yet to form a critical mass. Every time that you sign a prime to post-prime free agent you're getting a 3 year performance window (if you're lucky) and then back looking for the next answer at the position. The Jets have actually gotten lucky with a couple of exceptions to the rule. They signed 27 year old Calvin Pace to a long-term deal in 2008 and he's still going without a huge dropoff in play. They signed David Barrett to a long-term deal in 2004 and he lasted until 2008. Those are the exceptions to the rule. They also traded for and signed Lito Sheppard in 2009 - GONG! They traded for and signed Alan Faneca in 2008 -GONG! They traded for and signed Kris Jenkins in 2008 - GONG! They traded for Braylon Edwards in 2009 - GONG! They traded for and signed Santonio Holmes in 2010 - GONG! They signed Damien Woody in 2008 - GONG! They traded for and signed Antonio Cromartie in 2010 - GONG! They signed Bart Scott in 2009 - GONG! They signed Jim Leonhard in 2009 - GONG! They signed Sam Cowart in 2002 - GONG! They signed Damien Robinson in 2001 - GONG! They signed Donnie Abraham in 2002 - GONG! They signed Aaron Beasley in 2002 - GONG! The success stories, the guys who actually worked out as a 4 or 5 year starter are few and far between. Solving a problem for 1 or 2 years at a 4 year price is why the Jets can never get to critical mass. At least we're not doing that with regularity at this point.
The Jets fan base is exactly what the press wants us to be. A bunch of whiners who only know how to complain, but have no real idea how to run a franchise. The press always creates a story where someone has to be the blame. Cut that baby shit out. You win some. You lose some. Mistakes will happen after all we are talking about human beings here. I know football can be emotional, but people need to get a grip and stop making it so easy for the press to get people all riled up. This franchise has been in the dumps for quite a while. Anyone who is here now had nothing to do with the Jets not winning since 69.
I hear what you're saying, but Corey Graham wouldn't have cost a lot, so even if you're right that his play falls off a cliff after two years, the dead money issue at the backend is relatively a non-issue. If he gave us two solid years at CB and helped in the development of our team and young CBs, would that not have been worth it? Of course, one would rather sign a 24- or 25-year old FA than a 27- or worse, 29-year old FA, but sometimes you have to take the best player available regardless of age when you have a glaring need and were in the position the Jets were in at CB. Dmitri Patterson is 31. Hindsight is 20-20, but Graham would have been a much better signing than Patterson. I'd rather have signed Graham even for four years over Patterson for one year, and that doesn't even take into consideration Patterson's freaking out and going AWOL. No one could have forseen that. Kudos to legler82 for recognizing that prior to this season. His reasoning is solid. AFAIK Graham didn't have an injury history like Patterson, either. It does look like Idzik totally missed on that signing, especially since he played in a system very similar to ours and it would have helped weaken the Ravens, a team we have been unable to beat since Rex became HC.
I am in total agreement with your last sentence (which I bolded). That said, I think there are exceptions to almost every rule or philosophy. Would you rather the Jets have paid $3 million for this season to a 31-year old player with a bad injury history (Dmitri Patterson) or $4 million to a 29-year old player with no injury history? Now granted, Patterson's deal was only for one year, and in general, that's the way to go, but with his injury history, that was taking a HUGE chance that he would have been able to give the Jets over 5-7 games this season. What if McDougle didn't develop, wasn't ready or simply not that good, or was injured seriously? Perhaps I missed something, but I haven't seen Superhippy or legler82 advocating that the Jets should have signed a post-prime player to a market level deal. Corey Graham didn't get a market level deal imo, but maybe you think he did. According to Spotrac http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/corey-graham/ Four million a year is pretty cheap for a quality CB. Only $5.5 million guaranteed is pretty cheap two, especially spread out over 2-4 seasons. Let's say his play did fall off a cliff after two seasons, he still could have been a decent backup CB (as good as anyone the Jets have). Even if not, with the cap space the Jets have, the rest of the money wouldn't have been a huge hit. It's certainly not ideal, nor was the length of the contract. Maybe Idzik called him or his agent, found out that's what Graham wanted, and so didn't bring him in or have further discussions. Graham's from Buffalo so he may have picked the Bills over the Jets regardless of what we offered, but I think he would have been a better option than Patterson. I wonder if he was even on Idzik's radar. In terms of kicking it out another year, how is that really different from the Patterson signing? Don't you think Patterson would have been starting and playing most of the snaps if he were healthy and didn't go AWOL on the team? Even if McDougle wasn't injured, he would have still been developing and learning. It takes rookie CBs a couple of years to develop. He could have learned by watching, practicing, getting some nickel or dime snaps or perhaps even by replacing Wilson in the slot. I don't think that having Graham would have slowed down McDougle's development at all. If McDougle had stayed healthy and outplayed Graham either this season or next, don't you think that McDougle would have started? Again, I hear what you're saying, and basically agree with it. Both the Tuna's and Tanny's modus operandi was to go after older, more expensive players and we saw the state in which that left the team. I'm with you that I'm glad Idzik is mostly avoiding that and I applaud him for that, but Patterson is 31. At his age and with his injury history, Graham seemingly would have been a FAR superior choice. I didn't expect the Jets to go anywhere this year and was fine with going with rookies and young players, letting them play, make mistakes on the field and learn. The problem was that Milliner got hurt in TC as did McDougle. Injuries happen. The Jets needed some quality veteran insurance at CB. Walls is ok, but Lankster isn't. Patterson really wasn't, since he had a long injury history. IMO Idzik should have gone with Graham or another mid-tier CB over Patterson.
I like the idea of signing a FA CB this year. Idzik probably thought he could get by with Milliner/Patterson/McDougle/Wilson. And if it wasnt for McDougles injury and Patterson being a nut, who knows what could have been. But now we know for certain that CB is a need and will have to be addressed in the offseason. I think we'll be addressing a CB in FA. Hopefully signing Maxwell.
