haha, you just can't stop embarrsing yourself. I almost feel bad for you. Here goes . . . Dear Junc, "but you guys are telling me about all these played he MADE better so I am asking who they are? you don't have an answer so now you are deflecting." . . . doesn't mean anything in the English language. Sorry. The bolded answers your question. Obviously, since I am not this "other poster," I can't possibly know who he had in mind. Also, I already addressed the idiocy of the entire "this guy makes guys better" argument in this context (You clearly chose to ignore this because you had no other choice . . . you have NO argument).
I'm sure it would if you wrote it. "Mark Sanchez helps players guys . . . that's why he's so much better than a player who has outplayed him by every known objective metric of individual assessment. That's why he's a back up now. . . he helps players." hahaha. Such sublime silliness.
Has nothing to do with fantasy stats. That's an extremely weak excuse because you can't argue based on overall talent between the players. So it's easy, and kind of a cop out to just say "he is one of the most overrated in league history b/c of the explosion of fantasy football and lazy, average fans and "experts" evaluating based on fantasy stats." That's a lazy argument junc. Rivers is way better, everyone knows this. He's made Malcolm Floyd better, Danny Woodhead, he's brought along players like Keenan Allen, and him and Vincent Jackson basically got their starts together, and once Jackson left Rivers career didn't spiral apart. Antonio Gates continued to flourish while he was the QB. These guys careers didn't begin to fall apart when they got paired with Rivers. They were talented guys and Rivers got (or continued to get) that talent out of them. Tannenbaum was fired for a number of reasons. The lack of talent around the QB and overall development of the QB being the biggest. If he kept the team in good cap shape he would have been able to put more talent around the QB. But lets be serious, Marks digression was a big reason as well. Mark wasn't good under Schottenheimer. Kelly is a brilliant offensive mind, he saw a high draft pick who has been an underachiever in his career. He's probably no in love with Foles and wanted to see what Mark could bring to the table knowing full well, if he sucked, he could just cut him and be done with it.
Precisely. But, who knows, maybe Junc's NFL contacts told him that Kelly sees Sanchez as the future of the Eagles. Seems just as reasonable.
It has everything to do with it b/c a knowledgeable fan watching Rivers cannot possibly think he is a great QB yet so many do. it's the laziness of ratings and stats. That is where the laziness comes from. Malcom Floyd is a guy who should catch 80 balls, his career high is 56- why is that? Floyd was a rookie in 2004, didn't catch more than 30 balls until 2009. Man Rivers made him great! Woodhead? seriously? keenan Allen the guy who everyone thought was a huge sleeper a year ago? I can buy him helping develop him a bit. Vincent Jackson- the guy who got MUCH better playing w/ crap QBs in Tampa after he left Rivers? Antonio Gates? one of the best TEs who was just entering his prime when Rivers took over. Please stop. whose career fell apart w/ Mark? mark took a step back in 2012 b/c his best weapons missed most of that year and we had no depth b/c cap space was so tight and we traded away a million picks. Mark was very good under Schottenheimer actually. Kelly knew Mark's talent from watching him at USC, he's no dummy. Numerous teams were interested in Mark even though he was cut so late and teams made moves at QB or had plans to draft QBs.
Yeah, Sanchez was tremendous under Schottenheimer. That's probably why the Jets brought in Tony Sparano . . . They felt really good about how their young quarterback was developing with Brian. Really good. No doubt about it. Makes total sense. Really.
It has nothing to do with it. So let me get this right. If you watch Rivers and think he's really good your not knowledgable? But if you watch Sanchez and come away with the opinion that he's good you are knowledgable? That's flawed on so many levels junc. Come on. You fail to understand my points. I didn't say Rivers made Floyd great. But Floyd was an undrafted FA out of college and made it in this league with Rivers throwing the ball to him. Who did Mark take out of nowhere and turn into a player? You saying he should be a guy who catches 80 balls a year is strictly based on your own opinion. All I know is that when you get an undrafted FA who turns into a guy who 40+ balls a year with strong yards per reception numbers thats pretty good. Woodhead caught 70 balls last year. Keenan Allen, a rookie who came in and had a great rookie year with Rivers throwing him the ball Jackson developed with Rivers, they both helped each other. How did he get MUCH better in TB? Please explain. Gates is awesome. The point I make is that he didn't fall apart when paired with Rivers. His career continued to flourish, please read what i'm saying. He didn't turn into Santonio Holmes 2011. But i'm sure thats all Santonio' fault and couldn't possibly have anything to do with Marks talent right?
Yes pretty much. a million UDFAs have made it. Floyd was there well before Rivers became the starter, to credit him is silly. who were the UDFAs we had to choose from? using your logic I guess he gets credit for Cumberland and Kerley?, he's the only guy to ever get anything out of Clowney. Stuckey was at his best w/ Mark. Patrick Turner had his only NFL success w/ Mark. 70 dumpoffs, his yards per was way down. Many expected keenan Allen to be a good player. He had his best year of his career in tampa w/ garbage throwing to him. why would a HOFer like Gates fall apart w/ Rivers? I never said Rivers sucks he's just not great and never has been despite some great #s at times. Santonio Holmes 2011 tied a career high w/ 8 TDs. 4th highest rec total trailing 2nd best by just 4 recs.
I'm going to stay out of this discussion, but I had a question. Do you think Malcolm Floyd would catch 80 balls with Mark as his QB?
Mark isn't a big #s guy, he's a guy that makes plays to win. he didn't throw a heck of a lot to have 80 rec guys. Rivers is a pure #s guy who you won't win anything w/ b/c he melts in January. some QBs cannot handle big game pressure.
Floyd did nothing till he was paired with Rivers. I'm not even saying he wouldn't have made it without Rivers. Very well could have, but you giving Rivers no credit for being really good is the only silly thing. Kerley wasn't a UDFA.... Mark doesn't get credit for any of those guys cause none of the other mentioned guys made it. Cumberland is the only one with a legit chance that you named. And if he makes it, it's not because of Mark. He had a better year last year with a rookie QB throwing to him then he did with Mark the year prior. 70 dumpoffs correct, he's a RB, those are usually the types of passes they catch. Why was Jackson's best year of his career in tampa? You didn't go by those stats you hate did you? Santonio Holmes was ready to take off towards the end of his Pittsburgh days, he came here in 2010 and played very well. Then did nothing after that. Caught 8 TD's yes, but the 4th highest rec total? Junc at that point he'd only been in the league 6 seasons lol. Come on man, your reaching. He also had his lowest yards per reception season and yards per game season of his career by that point. Why was that? Yes he's a douchebag and it's good he's gone but that doesn't mean he's the only one to blame for his regression as a player. I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't a Sanchez fan, he was probably right not to be one based on talent. Should he have approached it the way he did? No, but that doesn't mean he's wrong in his evaluation of the man throwing him the ball.
he began his career in 2004, Rivers took over in 2006. Floyd didn't catch 20+ balls until 2008. Kerley was a late rd pick. None of those guys made it but Floyd did? Woodhead: yds per rec: NYJ 10.9 NE 10.7 SD 7.9 So Holmes played very well in 2010- who was the QB? it was Mark's fault he wasn't as good in 2011 and he got hurt in 2012? you think playing w/ the weapons they had in Pitt helped that Yds per and playing w/ a HOFer(a real great QB) helped? By the way, if you prorate Holmes 2010 #s through 16 games it ends up like this: 69 recs(2nd highest of career) 995 yds(2nd) 8 TDs(tied for 1st) not bad considering Mark dragged him down.
I dont care when Floyd started his career. I care about when he started to produce, which was under Rivers in 2008 like you said. Him starting his career in 2004 and being active for 4 games is irrelevant. Woodhead's numbers as a Jet are also irrelevant. He saw 93 snaps all year. You can't possibly come away with anything of any substance from 93 snaps compared to the 463 he saw the next year with the Patriots for example. I'll take 76 for 8 YPR over 34 for 11 YPR all day, especially when you throw in the fact that he also rushed for 400+ yards and gained over 1,000 yards from scrimmage, the bulk of which came from catching the ball. Not bad for a backup RB. Holmes played very well in 2010 with Mark. Mark Sanchez took a big step forward in 2010, it was all downhill from there though and thats the problem.
