The team was supremely talented. Mark was an average at best QB. If we had a average team we don't make the playoffs. You want me to give him more credit than he deserves for being a game manager? No one is saying to give anyone an asterisk btw.
I never said or even implied that Mark did nothing. I said that he played his part. He didn't screw up, he ran the offense and made timely plays. He wasn't asked the carry the offense. He just had to run the offense and not turn the ball over. He did that in the playoffs and we had success. I don't know how much more credit he deserves. Rivers IS a vastly superior QB to Sanchez and if we had him we'd have a better chance of winning a SB during those years. Not only that but he was asked to do more than Sanchez. You just can't compare the two. Their roles in their respective offenses were different. Rivers made mistakes because he had to throw more and he had more responsibilities. The Bears made a SB run with an offense built around the run game and the QB managing the offense with a stout defense on deck. We had a limited QB and the offense was designed to mask his deficiencies and to accentuate his strengths. If you put an average at best QB around a team surrounded by a dominant defense a good run game, a decent weapon or two to throw to, and a stout oline. They would 9/10 times have some success. Once the talent level eroded Mark became a liability because the defense was no longer dominant, the oline was no longer stout, the receivers became average at best, the run game became pedestrian. When the team got to that point in order for us to win the QB needed to do more and Sanchez wasn't physically capable. So like I said he gets credit for his role on those playoff teams. But I'm not going to pretend as if he did more than what he really did.
Ok how about this. Sanchez was the most important piece on those playoff teams without his greatness we don't beat the Colts or Pats. Absolutely no one could've done what he did because he is sooooooooo awesome.
It's amazing how 'stats' are presented as either proof of or derided as fantasy-league numbers. Whatever, in the Jets-Chargers 2009 playoff game, Mark Sanchez threw for only 100 yards total, had a completiong percentage well below 50%, and his yards per pass was a measley 4.3 yards. Mark Sanchez was not the reason the Jets won that game. Nate Kaeding was.
That's the story of his career. Holds the ball too long and gets railed for it. It was the preseason. He should have protected the football and went down instead of trying to be a hero. He was surrounded by 3 giants. Live to fight another day.
Since Mark isn't a Jet anymore, I'm gonna move this thread over to the NFL forum. You guys wanna argue Sanchez? Knock yourselves out!
Many have said that, many have bashed mark and said he was along for the ride. If we had Rivers I don't think we make a single title game. Rivers is a vastly superior #s guy but he's had far better teams around him and home games in postseason and only made one title game and he wasn't even on the field when SD won it. He got hurt w/ SD trailing Indy and his backup led the game winning drive to send them to the title game. Grossman wasn't a bad game manager type but the '06 Bears had a better D than we ever had and they had a weak division and conference. the 2 seed in the NFC that year was 10-6, we were 11-5 and the last WC in 2010. they needed to win 2 home games to get to SB. No QB, besides maybe Brady, is capable of winning w/ Chaz Schilens and co. if we had 2010 talent we would have been playoff teams in 2011 and 2012 even w/ the D not being as good. Mark was OUTSTANDING that day, people look at #s and don't watch games. He made big plays when we needed and didn't make the big mistake which was something Rivers didn't do. Mark had only 100 yds but we didn't throw in the 4th qtr after Greene's run which was set up by a 3rd down pass from Mark to Cotch by the way. Mark only threw 2 passes in 4th qtr, his huge TD to give us a 10-7 lead where he made a spectacular throw on the run after buying time and the 3rd and 4 pass right before the Greene TD which doesn't happen w/o that conversion. Would you guys have been happier not converting, staying up by 3 and having him pass more? the man made a bunch of big plays, the yardage and comp % was irrelevant. we were a HUGE underdog w/ a rookie QB on the road against the hottest team in the league. he was OUTSTANDING.
Moving on from the personalizing and condescending "don't watch games" broken record, tired swipe: Nate Kaeding (and the Chargers, not Rivers individually, lost that game). Rivers leads SD right down the field on their 2nd possession into the red zone. From there, Nate Kaeding who had made 69 field goals inside of 40 yards--69 straight!--hooks it wide left in perfect conditions. As a Jet fan I would emotionally describe it as "OUTSTANDING" and objectvely as a flat-out choke and a very fortunate break for the Jets. Put simply: who'd have laid serious money straight up on him missing? No one in their right mind. Jets meanwhile on offense are giving their defense optimistic hope by: - going 3 and out on their first possession of the game - going 3 and out on their second possession of the game - going 3 and out on their third possession of the game - going 3 and out on their fourth possession of the game. - going the entire first half scoreless. Cause for concern? Yes. "OUTSTANDING?" No. Best pass (not play, pass) of the game was in the first half with Rivers hitting Antonio Gates with a perfect touch pass skipping backwards with two Jets in his face. A pretty pass, not "spectacular" but pretty. From there, Rivers hits Chris Wilson with a TD pass. San Diego should be up 10-0 is still only up by 1 score thanks wholly to the Jets defense and Nate Kaeding. Rivers gets the ball back and moves the Chargers down into Jets territory towards the end of the 1st half but SD runs out of time and have to settle for a very long FG attempt that goes wide right (too long an attempt-it was more about Rivers running out of time). 2nd half of the game: Jets finally get on the board, courtesy of a very questionable PI call against Quinton Jammer on an overthrown (lead too far) slant to Cotch. Next 3rd and 5, pass only goes for 4 yards and Jets have to settle for FG. Jets defense gets the ball back and on one of the few times that Sanchez tries to throw the ball down field, he's promptly picked off by Quinton Jammer on an absolutely brutal misread and throw (3 Chargers in coverage). Ball returned from the Chargers 38 to the Jets 38: a 24 yard field possession swing on top of the turnover. No problem, Jets defense to the rescue (even if it was a near miracle): Rivers to Vincent Jackson. Revis grabs Jackson's right arm (a good non-call) while the ball hits off Jackson's left hip….rolls down his leg and is kicked by Jackson's left foot whereuon it hits his butt and rolls over into Revis' arms - this was the impossible Greg Jenning MNF catch 2.0 (or "Buttfumble 1.0"). Jets offense with that break end up having to punt. Jets defense having pinned the Chargers inside their own 5 yard line pick off Rivers off a bad pass (on a ball that Antonio Gates never turned around on-poor miscommunication there). Now that the Jets offense has been handed this big break by the defense with the ball inside the red zone, their first play gains 2 yards, but yet another break for the Jet offense: Shawn Phillips gets into a yapping match with D'Brick and stupidlty head butts Brick--thank you, Mr. Stupid, moving the ball half the distance to the goal. From there, on 3rd down, Sanchez makes his play of the day and a very nice veteran-like play at that, buying time rolling out to the right. Keller breaks his pattern and Sanchez hits him with a very pretty pass down low. This QB-to-Keller 3rd down improv converstions was reminiscent of Farve and Keller (when Keller was his repeated go-to guy as well). As nice as that play was all-around, anyone who watched the game could also see that Shonn Green was the unsung hero of that play, whose extended stoning of a fast-closing SD defender provided Sanchez with the needed window to get out to the right sideline. Helluva play all around Sanchez, Green and Keller (that play's never been disputed). As for the pass being 'sensational'? Well…ok….whatever… Sanchez converts a 3rd and 4 for 5 yards. Ok, all well and good. But a 5 yard pass completion isn't exactly Phil Simms 4th-and-17 vs. Minnesota material to keep it in context. OL and FB Richardson spring Shonn Greene for a TD. Lost on the play was a sensational handoff by Mark who displayed some OUTSTANDING Chad Pennington-like ball handling skills. Jets get the ball back and Steve Weathersford excapes a disasterous blocked punt by an eyelash. Rivers follows with a big gain down to the Jets 20. Jets challenge the play and another SD bone-headed break falls the Jets way. Vincent Jackson kicks the red challenge flag that Rex threw out onto the field: unsportsmanlike conduct, 15 yards; thank you once again Mr. Stupidity. Ball moved back to the 35-yard line. Undeterred, Rivers hits for 19, then again down to the 1, then QB sneaks it in for the TD. Lost in all this was the Chargers trying to get within one score by having Nate "69-in-a-row" from inside 40 yards attempting a field goal of: 40 yards. And of course Nate Kaeding missed that one as well. Jets OL/RB puts thee game out of reach blasting the SD defense off the ball on 4th and 1. Game over. Moral of story: to paint Rivers as some turnover prone sad sack is a distortion. The Chargers choked (the PF penalties, blown tackles on the Greene TD run, and 1st prize to Kaeding), Philip Rivers did not. Converely, to paint Mark Sanchez' game manager performance as "outstanding" is an exaggeration and to do so in CAPS is an emotional one at that. Let's leave it at that. "OUTSTANDING" was the Jets winning that game. If Vicor Cruz' 90-yarder changed the tenor of the NYJ-NYG game (which I think it did) than Kaeding's miss set the tone breaks-wise for the Jets. The Jets won because of some good, not outstanding play, and some breaks.
awesome waste of time but the bottom line is up 7-3 late 3rd Rivers throws a critical INT which sets up our 1st TD and a lead we would never relinquish. also, after mark's lone mistake on his INT w/ SD on our side of the field he threw an INT right back to us. through 3 qtrs. he had similar #s to Mark, then when we went prevent he started piling up yardage #s which clearly impressed you but despite MORE talent, the hottest team in the league, playing at home could only lead his O to 3 less points than rookie Mark Sanchez led his O to. Rivers is incredibly overrated, SD for years was considered the favorite in the AFC and they never got close to a SB and the one time they made a title game they did so w/o Rivers on the sideline hurt. this game is about more than just #s, again Mark limited mistakes and made a bunch of big plays. Rivers couldn't do the same.
Put Rivers on those Jets teams in '09 and '10 and I'm confident there is at least one SB trophy in Florham Park today. Rivers is a solid QB. They wouldn't have had to play 3 straight road games to reach the SB, they'd been hosting teams with a bye. Especially 2010. That team had one weakness : QB
And I'll bold it and stop reading it at that. I was talking about that game only and you brought nothing to suggest that Mark was "OUTSTANDING" let alone sensational. No, the waste of time was pointing out your fanboy hyperbole. A "waste of time" in that you're incorrigible and a tad too emotional, especially where Mark's concerned. Whatever anyone thinks of Rivers, his gumption at NE while LT sulked on the bench 'injured' showed me the guy's mettle like him or not.
yep, in a weaker division w/ MUCH more talent around him where he won divisions not having to deal w/ NE he couldn't even get his team to a title game but we would have won a SB w/ him of course they would have had to play 3 straight road games, NE was still in the division. he wouldn't have had Oak, KC and den to beat up on if he was here. Congrats by the way on being able to read a play by play sheet. very impressive. mark was a ROOKIE, an up and down one w/ average talent around him. SD was the hottest team in the NFL, they were 9 pt favorites, this was the div rd on the road w/ a rookie. How many QBs have we seen melt in that spot before? vets, at home, w/ more talent? He didn't throw for 300 yds which the average fan thinks is the sign of good QB play(you are better than the average fan so I know you know better) but he made 3-4 huge 3rd down conversions, that scramble and TD to give us our first lead was CRITICAL, the 3rd down conversion just before Greene's run was critical. we ran it all but 2 plays in the 4th trying to hold on to a lead so his #s were down but for a rookie to go into SD in that situation and not make the big mistakes, make big plays and help his team win was outstanding. as far as Rivers, he's tough like pretty much all NFL players, especially QBs, are but he cost his team a chance at NE. Volek led them to the win the week before and SD would have had a better chance w/ Volek at QB.
first point, NE was 10-6 in 2009 and we were 9-7. If we sweep BUF, or split MIA, or sweep NE we win the division. If we had Rivers, we easily do better than NE that season. In 2010, tougher call. The Jets lost games where they put up 9, 0, 6, and 3 points. In 3 of those games, the other team scored 10, 9, and 10. If we have Rivers, the division is a lot closer for NE. Either way, Rivers in 2009 and 2010 was a top QB in the league. The Jets could have benefited greatly from having a top QB. that's no slight to Sanchez, he just wasn't a top QB in his first two years in the league. That's nothing new, QBs rarely are. Reality is, a top QB is better for the Jets than a rookie or second year Sanchez. Okay, and all those veteran QBs who melted at home, also had games where they absolutely played much better than Sanchez did in SD. So yeah if we compared Sanchez's okay game to the worst game of other QBs in the playoff, Sanchez's game looks better. Logically, the only reason to do that is to help make Mark look better than he played. Leave it as it is. Sanchez was not a good QB in 2009, but he was a good fit for the Jets. The Jets could have been better off with a top QB, but so could 25 other NFL teams every year. Sanchez in the playoffs got the job done, but the Jets were built on a tough game plan to execute. Granted the Ravens, Giants, and Pats all pulled off similar runs to the SB, but there have been so many teams that run into the same wall, you need balance. It was a good, unexpected year for the Jets. Even if we judge Sanchez on the rookie curve, he basically needed to get better overall. But it was promising that unlike some rookies, he got to perform on a veteran team that had winning success. His 2010 was better, but his inconsistency (or Schotty's) really plagued the Jets. We saw this creep up in the playoffs in the IND and PITT playoff games. Saying that, there are probably only 5-7 QBs the Jets would have been better off with in 2010. (this count is off the top of my head, I would say Brees, Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Rivers, Big Ben, Ryan. I remember Freeman and Flacco had good years in 2010 but uhhh it's Josh Freeman and Joe Flacco) This year really showed an improved Sanchez that fit the team much better than 2009. It also had great talent all around him, although an injury near would derail the OL slightly. So overall, I think Sanchez's 2009 gets overrated on here by people trying to support him and his 2010 gets underrated by people trying to criticize. In reality, he was somewhere in-between. What could have been, but the Jets just needed a QB during a poor QB draft class. The Jets also painted themselves into a hole where they needed a QB in the draft. They also lost a lot of assets in the 2009 draft by drafting only 3 players. Really put higher pressure on the FO for those 2009 draft picks to turn into stars. But that's me getting more into Tanny's ability to piece together a talented team, but inability to replenish the talent lost. Look at the QBs in 2009 draft: Matthew Stafford Mark Sanchez Josh Freeman Pat White Stephen McGee Rhett Bomar Nate Davis Tom Brandstater Mike Teel Keith Null Curtis Painter UDFA- Brian Hoyer, Chase Daniel
