We should have "Citizen Mod's" for when the real Mod's aren't available, which seems like always... I nominate myself for "Head Citizen Mod"... All in favor, like this post.
Clearly. And any other position is indefensible right? All I'm saying is that Sanchez took us further than Obrien ever did, even with the sack exchange there for half his career. Sanchez had Revis & Cromartie, Obrien had Klecko and Gastineau. I will admit that our defense was better in 2009 & 2010, then it was during most of O'brien's career. However, our offense was drastically more talented than it was under Sanchez anytime, except for 2010 where it tied the 1986 Jets for record and offensive ranking. The D was bad in 86, though, so one could say the 2010 team was better. As far as number go, Sanchez performed way better in the playoffs. Regular season means dick when you get bounced in the first or 2nd round. O'brien was cold as ice in the playoffs overall. Sanchez still holds the #6 post season QB rating of all time. It's not close between him and O'brien. O'brien didn't even make top 50, and you can't blame the defense completely. I mean he threw 2 TDs and 4 INTS, with average rating of 80. Just saying. The guy gets praised because he's a decent regular season QB, but in reality we should have picked Marino and that bad decision will haunt us for years.
Couldn't find a poll of intelligent rational observant Jet fans that actually watch the games, this is the best I could do so far. Note: These were all written by unintelligent, non-observant, casual fans and fake internt QB guru bloggers. I'm looking for the polls or articles that rank Sanchez higher than O'Brien as a career Jet QB and I'll post it as soon as I find it. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ranking-top-ten-york-jets-quarterbacks-time-fans-132100124--nfl.html http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...op-7-quarterbacks-in-franchise-history/page/8 http://nyjetscap.com/jetsefficiency.html http://nesn.com/2013/01/vote-who-is-the-greatest-quarterback-in-jets-history/ http://espn.go.com/newyork/photos/gallery/_/id/7157732/image/28/24-ken-obrien-qb-50-greatest-jets http://www.rankopedia.com/All-Time-Best-New-York-Jets/Titans-Starting-Quarterbacks/Step1/17428/.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/career-passing.htm _
The D suffered numerous injuries that year and that impacted the team BUT we lost 5 straight w/ Ken then insert Ryan in for the playoff game and we WIN. Then a week later Ryan starts, we have a nice lead, he gets hurt, Ken has a 10 pt lead late in the game and we blow that and lose in double OT. by the way, D's in postseason in regulation Ken's Ds: 18.7 PPG allowed Mark's D's: 18.7 PPG allowed who cares? I don't need others to tell me how to think. These are the same people that say mark sucked and was the worst QB in the league and you disagree w/ that. Come on, you are better than this.
I'm a huge Sanchez fan. But it doesn't make sense to rate a guy who played 4 years over the franchises top 1 or 2 or 3 player in TDs, passing yards, INT ratio and QB rating. Sanchez was very good in 2009, he was really really really good in 2010--he was outstanding in those two playoff runs but he was mediocre at best in 2011 and he was dreadful in 2012. But if your criteria for top franchise QB is what he did in those two playoff runs and you dismiss everything else--then your position is entirely defensible. I'm not sure I agree with that criteria. And again, I loved Sanchez. _
No one is telling you how to think. It's a rational look at how non-emotional folks look at the franchise QBs of the Jets. Btw, I was pissed we took O'Brien over Marino and I loved Sanchez. _
I almost forgot about that. I thought he got injured for the other game. So he really is 0-3 in the playoffs. Wow that speaks volumes. I didn't realize it was dead even like that. Looks like he can't blame the defense at all for his post season blunders.
"Took". Heh. Team sport. And yes I understand you make a flabby argument that in fact the team O'Brien had was better, but that's not really true in any one year. Comparing two Qb's career by favoring a metric that in fact was only four games is a weird comparitor. But if you want to use that, well go at it. But I dispute that Sanchez took the Jets to the playoffs. WIth a better Qb, an average NFL qb in both regular seasons hte Jets would have had better seedings and might well have gone furhter on that account than they did. By any reasonable standard, not the least of which was contributing over time, over a number of seasons, O'Brien was far superior as a Qb. If you want to pick out a three game career, how about Quincy Carter? Off the bench he won two of three games. Sanchez lost 2 of the four games you tout. See how won and lost play out in that paragraph?
I guess they are all right about sanchez then. it's not rational, if Ken was great and had that longevity I'd agree w/ you but his career was up and down just like Mark's except he doesn't have any big game wins to fall back on. Ken was my FAVORITE player in that era, if I was just being emotional I'd pick him. I can separate my emotions. I defend mark more than anyone here and I happen to like mark but I don't have favorite players anymore, I don't look up to players. I am fortunate I get to meet many of them and learn more than I would otherwise but if it was emotional I would pick Ken. I would pick all the 80s guys that helped develop my love for this team. technically as a starter he is 0-2 but he was awful at Cleveland. He was banged up and not the same player pre-shoulder injury but he did play and you are judged on how you play and he did a poor job. that game could have gone to 6 OTs and our O wouldn't have scored w/ him.
Different discussion, different authors, different articles. Every single one of those articles I posted put Sanchez in the top 5 or 6 so it's not as if they are dinging him and suggesting he's the worst Jet QB ever. Besides, folks never started screaming about Mark being the "worst" until he literally became one of the "worst" in the league in 2012--whether it was his fault or not (it wasn't). In 2009 and 2010, I would think most of those media outlets I linked to were touting him as the bright future of the Jets. Even into 2011. _
we have only had 5 or 6 long term QBs so being in the top 5 or 6 isn't really an honor. I don't think you were here then but Mark was bashed in 2009 and 2010 too.
Sanchez only played for 4 years with us, while Obrien had 9 years, so it's unfair to even compare their careers as a whole. Sanchez could still win a superbowl, and that would instantly elevate him over Obrien. Now I know you're saying "career as a jet". I can't really argue that, but Sanchez had more success in the playoffs and brought us closer to a superbowl than we had been anytime with O'brien. If he had completed that comeback against Steelers and we didn't get Schottied, he would have been easily the best Jet QB short of Namath (depending on how the SB went of course). Here are some interesting stats. For the numerical stats(non % based), Sanchez' are pro rated to 8 years(doubled) to make it close to even, even though this favors Obrien slightly because he had 9 years. I'm also omitting O'brien's numbers for his year on the Eagles. This is regular season only. Sanchez: comp%: 55.1, TDs: 160, INTS: 138, YDS: 24,868, passer rating: 71.7 Obrien: comp%: 58.4, TDs: 124, INTS: 98,, YDS: 24, 780, passer rating: 79.25 Honestly, Sanchez isn't far behind, plus he was much more effective in scoring and slightly better in yards per season. We know Sanchez was horrible with TOs, and that's the one thing that I feel holds him behind O'brien as far as total career as a Jet goes. I didn't mention fumbles but Sanchez had 3x more in just 4 years than O'brien did his entire career. I'm tempted to do this with Vinny, as well but his career kind of took a turn for the worse after the injury. He did put up 101.6 rating in his first year on the Jets, which is higher than any single O'brien or Sanchez year. He also had 29 passing TDs in 2000 which also tops either one as well for any single year they played, so it's debatable whether O'brien even comes at #3. Post season does matter, though and both QBs performed better in the post season than O'brien.
I was on another site, but the bashing was by and large by the vocal minority. And the bashing that occured in 2012 REGARDING 2009 and 2010 was merely historical revisionism fired by hate. I had a fight with 1968fansomething about how he claimed Sanchez had only thrown 5 or 6 really good passes in his entire career. Out of 1100 receptions. Asinine. He threw 5-6 great passes a GAME. _
Check out my post above this one. It breaks down almost everything. Post season matters more than regular season, I'm sorry, and even their regular season #s aren't drastically different, aside from turnovers. As Junc pointed out, the playoff defense under O'brien gave up exactly the same amount of points as our D with Sanchez did. Sanchez stepped it up in the playoffs while O'brien stepped it down. That's the simple fact of the matter. Sanchez is the best post season QB in Jets history except for possibly Namath. He's got the best record, best passer rating and probably the most TDs, although I haven't looked that one up so I could be wrong.
I'm going to use a typical Stokes response: You are an idiot and your position is indefensible. The end. Would it have been better if I said "TDs per season"? It would factor in the same exact way. LOL at discounting them because of pro rating. Just stop. I guess to you, it would be fair to call O'brien's career better because he had twice as many yards in more than twice the years? LMAO at discounting the stats without even a coherent rebuttal.
