Geno or Vick? Who do you think becomes starter week 1?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Poeman, Apr 17, 2014.

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Geno or Vick? Who starts week 1 of 2014 season

  1. Geno

    88 vote(s)
    56.1%
  2. Vick

    59 vote(s)
    37.6%
  3. Matt Simms?!?

    10 vote(s)
    6.4%
  1. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    All that could be true, but it also could bring along with it a real fullblown Qb controversy. As I alluded to if there is a perception that Smith starts because that is Idzik's call, that will only add to the potential for controversy.
     
  2. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    That perception will undoubtedly be advanced by the tabloids if Geno starts over Vick because all the tabloids are interested in is hits and selling papers.

    Given that reality I suspect the Jets will just do what their organizational plan is and not worry about the back page wars. It's the rational way to deal with a divided media environment in which a substantial portion of the media will always be brewing negative stories to differentiate and sell.

    The odds on an actual QB controversy are low. That takes the players getting involved also and if the Jets start Geno because he is ready to go the players won't be having issues with the decision.
     
  3. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Again, I agree if it is clear that Smith should start, there will be no controversy, or at least a minimal likelihood of one.

    Where it is not clear he should, and he does, then I think the odds in fact would be rather high of one. Some players more than others are not in a position to care about the team's medium to long term situation. They want to win sooner than later. Perhaps it is their age, perhaps it is their contract, perhaps both. Why should those players be happy with Smith starting if they think Vick is the better Qb this year?

    It's not just the media.
     
  4. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    You might add to that despite his rhetoric it would much better serve Ryan and Idzik to a smaller degree if the better QB also is the one that starts as both of their futures are dependent on the number of wins they get this year.
     
  5. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Again, all that needs to be clear this off-season is that Geno is ready to go. No team is ever going to hand the job to an imported veteran if they have confidence in their own young QB.

    We don't know how this is going to turn out in the end but going into the process with mistaken assumptions is not the way to go.

    Vinny didn't start the season in 1998. Glenn Foley did and then Foley got hurt. The Jets and Parcells didn't hand the job to Vinny just because they brought him in for insurance against Foley not being ready to go. They gave him the job when Foley (for whatever reason) was not ready to go. Same thing for Geno and Vick.
     
  6. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Again, it might not be as clear as you say.
     
  7. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    If it's not clear that Geno is ready to go then Vick will start.

    How complicated and fuzzy do you need things to be in a black and white picture?
     
  8. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    The problem is how do you define "ready to go"? That's quite a general, blanket statement.

    Assuming both are healthy, they both will be"ready to go" no matter what leading into the season.

    -Geno Smith could have a great camp look much better than last year and yet still look much worse than Vick because he is much worse of a player than Vick.

    -They both could have so so camps and look at least like they can run the offense, but not that inspiring either way.

    -Geno could make some strides, looking better but the team overall might respond better to Vick.

    - Or how they look could be irrelevant all together. Rex Ryan might decide he wants to win now and decide rightfully or not that Vick is his best option. Or his hands could be tied by Idzik who tells him Geno starts no matter what.. .etc.

    Saying if Geno Smith is "ready to go" he will start is pretty simplistic way of discussing a complex decision. Especially when you rub in someone's face like you have with BB, it's definitely not that simple.
     
  9. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Michael Vick is not that good. There's no way Geno is ready to have a good season in 2014 and Vick looks much better than him. If that Vick was still around he'd still be in Philly playing in an offense absolutely designed to take advantage of a running QB who can hit one of two reads consistently.

    If Vick was actually a big plus QB this would be a lot more complicated than it is, but if that was true he'd either be in Philly or signed somewhere to a 4 year $50M deal.
     
  10. Will-I-Am-Not

    Will-I-Am-Not Well-Known Member

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    I think Geno will win the job outright. There may be a few games where he's not playing at a high level, and he gets
    pulled for Vick to try and spark the team, but on the whole, I think Geno will have a better season than his rookie
    campaign.
     
  11. Turbocharged23

    Turbocharged23 Well-Known Member

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    Do you really think Idzik can force Rex's hand? What happens if Geno sucks ...would he still fire Rex?
     
  12. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    John Idzik is not likely to fire Rex. The only way that happens is if the Jets have a big down season and the coaching appears to be one of the problems.

    If you look at the moves Idzik has made since joining the Jets they have largely favored Rex and his coaching style. The two high profile moves, letting Revis and Sanchez go, were franchise-altering and they were players Rex particularly liked and valued. They were necessary moves anyway and Idzik pulled the trigger on them. Most of his other moves have been pro-Rex, including a heavy emphasis on drafting defense early and stockpiling a strong running game for his preferred style of offense.

    Look at the teams that Idzik has been with and how they built to their Super Bowl appearances. TB - defense. Arizona - balanced, 1st round S in 2005, 1st round CB in 2008, starters included many 2nd and 3rd round picks on defense. Seattle - balanced, 1st round S in 2010, 1st round OLB in 2012, starters included many mid to late round starters on defense.

    What the Jets are doing is giving a good defensive coach enough ammo to get over the top. If it still hasn't worked in 3 years and there hasn't been a collapse season the Jets will maybe do what the Bucs eventually did and bring in a hired pro to win the Super Bowl for them. Dungy was a very good coach in TB and beloved but sooner or later you need to get over the top and win.

    I see John Idzik and Rex Ryan as a great pairing at this point. Idzik won't blow out the roster trying to win right now, preferring to build organizational strength instead. Rex will stay upbeat and do the best he can with the pieces he's given and Idzik has given him some choice pieces for a defensive coach to work with.
     
  13. Altoona

    Altoona Well-Known Member

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    My concern is the possibility of Geno being assigned the starting job contrary to the majority of the team's preference in the event their collective belief is that Vick is the better player, the better leader and gives them a better chance of winning games. Naturally, the likelihood of any internal dissent would be fully neutralized if Geno is winning games or at least playing well enough that he is not deemed the cause of or responsible for any losses. The potential for negatively contaminated team morale exists if Geno struggles and is perceived by his teammates as being given too long a leash by the CS in losing winnable games, particularly if Vick was the consensus choice by the team to be their starting QB from day one. I'd like to believe that Rex and Idzik wouldn't be capable of such a disconnect between their view and the team's regarding which of the two QBs deserves to win the starting job on the basis of objective measure and pure merit. I just hope that if Geno is named the starter that his teammates will be fully committed and behind him all the way with the belief that he earned and is the best man for the job. As professionals, they're expected to be all in no matter what but unfortunately, the tendencies of human nature can prove otherwise, even if only to a nominal degree, which in turn can be the degree of difference between winning and losing games....
     
    #513 Altoona, May 30, 2014
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  14. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, sometimes Brad can be a bit obtuse. In any event, I don't see how the "ready to go" thing with Smith obviates the possibility of a Qb controversy.
     
  15. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Good post, and I generally agree. The problem comes up in assessing the medium term prospects for Smith. On one hand I think it is not the case, as some more or less say here, that the CS will be incapable of assessing Smith unless he starts and plays. Smith fans here discount Simms as any competition, but the logic of such position is that Simms might also improve if he were given the chance. (I do not mean here to tout Simms, ftr., as a prospect of real significance.)

    But while I do not think it necessary to play Smith, I do concede the picture would be less clear if he's not playing, and they only get to see him in practices.

    So, if Idzik says to himself I drafted this guy, I think he might improve enough to be the Jets' starting Qb in the medium term, perhaps even the long term, then I might well give him the nod even if in the short term I concede Vick is the better player.

    And if that happens, I think the prospects of a Qb controversy on the team is significant.
     
  16. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    Its pretty simple for me.

    If Michael Vick vastly outplays Geno in the offseason/preseason (extremely possible), than he will start.

    If Geno outplays Vick, than obviously he will start. This is what the Jets want, and this is what the fans want, and it is what's best for the team.

    If its even, or even if Vick is slightly better, Geno will start. His upside gives him the edge. History tells us Vick is going to get hurt, and he could be such a quality backup making spot starts.
     
    Ralebird, Br4d and The 1985er like this.
  17. The 1985er

    The 1985er Well-Known Member

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    The bold is 100% correct. It's literally that simple but folks like Big Blocker is acting as if it's rocket science.
     
  18. Jay Bizniss

    Jay Bizniss Well-Known Member

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    Geno has to seriously tank it to lose the job... If it is anywhere close, Geno lines up under center against the Raiders... Not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp. Geno gives us the best chance long term.
     
  19. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    yea, we as fans are fucked.
     
  20. Jay Bizniss

    Jay Bizniss Well-Known Member

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    Haha have a little faith. He is only in year 2.. We gave Sanchez 4 years.
     

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