There's a lot of guys with all of the intangibles (size, speed, blocking, etc.) but who aren't good football players. I think Hill is one of them. I hope he proves me wrong.
Why are you going out of your way to defend him over and over, it makes it hard to take you seriously. Saying once or twice that you think it's too early to give up on him is one thing, but we're talking about you defending EVERY thing about him since his career began, in every single thread. That's silly. It's no secret he's NOT where he should be at this point in his career. I did say the Jets were loaded with mediocre bodies at WR, but the difference is I don't see Hill as mediocre. I see him as useless because that's what he's been. That's why he's in danger of losing his job. If he has upside like you say - he better start showing it. It's time. I don't actually see anyone saying he's at the "end of his rope physically and mentally" as you say. That couldn't be further from the truth. Rather I see people getting tired of waiting for him to figure it out. Do you blame them? This kid has gotten more opportunities than anyone at the WR position the last couple years. The Jets let him prance around there and do nothing game after game. He finally gets hurt and they bring in David Nelson literally off the street and he accomplishes more in a small handful of games with way less opportunity than Hill had in a year and a half of opportunities. And you think people are being harsh on him?? I WISH I could say people are being unfair to him for that one N.E. drop, that's not the case though. Hill has proven by being useless that there is way more to criticize him about than that one drop.
If he can't go vertical being 6'2 or whatever he was last season against DBs smaller then him, then growing one inch ain't going to help this kid succeed. He needs to become a football player, a more physical one, so far he's failed - this should have been taught to him in grade school. Just as Barcs constantly defended Holmes once before, you will end up sharing that same embarrassment when Hill is gone.
Wait, So it's totally ok and makes someone completely reasonable if they repeat post everything that's wrong with him. But I can't be taken seriously if I maintain my position on him and try to explain myself to each of these threads that are brought up to bash him? I didn't even post in this thread until I was mentioned for not having posted in the thread yet. When I do make posts they're backed up with stats and reasoning, Not just "He's useless" or other subjective observations. Comparing Hill and Nelson as having been "more productive" or "accomplished" is nonsense to me. Nelson is a possession reveiver who made his "production" last year on short passes over the middle, He has no YAC and can't play any role other then possession WR. He had ~10 more catches, similar yardage and 1 more TD, In the same amount of games, ( without being hurt, and going into his 5th year in the league ). Hill was a 2nd year project WR still trying to learn the game and still had basically the same stats ( and a lower drop rate ) then Nelson did. You're right though, I'm the dumbass for trying to defend his roster spot ( while under contract ) and arguing we shouldn't cut a project player after 2 shortened years.
You act like I'm going to take any of that personally. I don't give a fuck what you people think about me and once Hill is gone off the roster you won't hear a word about him from me. People here act like if you support a player at all that you're some kind of obsessed compulsive fan. What I don't understand is what enjoyment you guys get from that kind of bullshit and chiding fans for supporting our player. What the hell does that even mean, You think I'm embarrassed about anything I've said then your just another ridiculous poster with a "smarter then thou" complex. Even if Hill gets cut tomorrow I still stand by all the things I've said about him. There are a large number of people on this board who have a very fleeting grasp on reality.
Just bringing in Nelson's stats against Hill's shows how clueless you are. Nelson came in OFF THE STREET and accomplished more than Hill after 2 years of TC and countless opportunities handed to him. Nelson wasn't penciled in as the number 2 sometimes number 1, week in and week out. He walked in, at first had limited snaps and earned his playing time and his stats, of which are actually better than Hills.!!! (I had honestly thought Hill put up more catches/yards/TDs than Nelson, but didn't care because it's obvious to anyone with eyes that Nelson is the better player - I'm stunned to find out that he didn't!) And you aren't simply trying to defend the roster spot of a player in a contract or arguing against cutting a project player - you are specifically defending Hill over and over like he's good, talking him up etc. (his drop percentage rate? seriously? That's great he only officially dropped one ball, the amount of drops tends to go down with productivity as well)
I don't want you to take it personally. But I think you gotta tone it down just a little bit in regards to your support on Hill. He's got potential we all realize that but you are making him out to be someone that has produced in the past (even the smallest amount of production), and that he has all of these tools to succeed. There is nothing wrong with supporting your fav player, but if your favorite player sucks be prepared to get flamed for it. You have to understand, not a lot of people liked this pick. I never once boasted the fact that I am smarter then you, not my style. You are mindlessly defending a player, maybe it's because of his attitude or you like the kid, but the evidence clearly states that he sucks, and lacks all of the fundamentals outside of blocking. If I were you, I wouldn't defend Hill as much. I believe it maybe you that is out of touch with reality. Hill is an enigma, he's a very frustrating player to watch. If he played the Bills 16 times a season, we would all love the kid.
But it's OK to continually bash him in every single thread that WRs are brought up? I have never stated that Hill was a productive WR. He's a project player that was forced into an expanded role that he wasn't ready for and then injured. No one is arguing that. If you've read through the numerous posts and articles I've referenced there are plenty of instances that display his improvement and ability to do all that in required of an NFL WR. He just hasn't done it on a consistent basis. It's not mindless support. It's based on watching every game and having an opinion on a player that doesn't match up with the rest of the sheep. That doesn't make it wrong. I could care less if my support of a player on our team makes you people think less of me. I know what I see and what I think and am comfortable with my opinion.
Yea, I agree, But, really, none of our WRs have done Jackshit though. Kerley/Nelson benefited from being Genos only consistent safety blanket and put up numbers that were greater then 0 but none of our WRs have done anything impressive since '11. I'm not saying Hill is void of any blame or criticism. I would love it if he took a much bigger step last season and it would have helped this team immensely. He was given a good opportunity that he just wasn't ready for. I'm just not going to give up because he did not take that step ahead of schedule. I was realistically not expecting anything significant from Hill until this year coming out of the draft. If you thought differently you can blame Tanny and Unrealistic expectations.
Marvin Jones was picked after Stephen hill and its 20 times the player hill will ever be. Alshon Jeffrey too
Kerley is a good receiver and Nelson came off the street and was productive. No one is saying the receivers have to be all pro caliber (although that would be nice) but neither Kerley or Nelson are useless. Hill has been dumpster juice for 2 seasons.
Agreed, Nelson as a 4th year WR coming out of a NFL style offense in college is a far more polished WR then Hill was as a 2nd year coming out of a run first college, no one is arguing that ( even though they put up very similar numbers. ) Unfortunately Nelson will never be more then a #3 or #4 WR. Hill has the potential to be a #1 or 2 WR if he can put the pieces together. That in itself is worth the roster spot over someone like Nelson, given that we have the possession WRS and depth to allow Hill to grow and cultivate and not try and play a role he isn't ready for ( Hill cannot play a possession WR role as of right now, which is basically what he was forced into his first 2 years ) . Really you can all just agree to disagree with me, Having such a strong opinion about him sucking is just as ridiculous as having a strong opinion about him having potential. Nothing in the NFL is as black and white as you would all have people believe. Using terms like dumpster juice really make it hit home though how much you dislike this guy. I just don't think it's justified.
Production>>potential. Nelson is the better WR and Hill may never put it together. You do not get rid of a proven NFL player over a guy that has never done anything. That makes no sense. I do think Hill should get a shot in year 3.
What if the production is close to the same though ( which it was )? And, Whatever benefit hill had from the ( shortened by injury ) TC he had last season would be equalized by Nelsons 3+ years experience in the league running a WC offense in Buf. Lets be real, Nothing is "proven" about Nelson other then that he's a serviceable #3 or 4. IMHO his niche in the offense is replaced by Decker and Amaro, Both big bodied sure handed pass catchers that can find space. Something we lacked greatly last season which is why Nelson became the temporary commodity that he was. Barring any injuries I would feel pretty confident in saying Nelson plays less snaps next season then Hill.
Hill is terrible and there is absolutely nothing at this point that is going to change that. Drafting him at all (and over ALSHON JEFFERY) was where the Jets made their biggest mistake. In 3 years of college 49 catches for 1249 yards and 9 TD's. In the same amount of time at the same school, in the same triple option offense, Calvin Johnson had 178 catches for 2900+ yards and 28 TD's. Hill was never going to succeed and I hope the Jets just cut their loses and release him during training camp. He can't run any route except for a straight line. He has no idea how to use his size to beat defenders. He drops catches that your average college receiver would haul in. He was benched in favor of David Nelson who is a career 450 yard per year guy, that got cut from the freaking Bills. In his 2 years with the jets combined he has had 45 catches for 594 yards and 4 TD's. There is a really great chance that Jalen Saunders does better then that in his rookie season alone. How Hill is still on the team I really don't know.
Nah Nelson is better and no the production has not been the same. Nelson came on midseason and outplayed Hill. Btw why are we always talking about Nelson when we talk about Hill.
I don't know. They keep coming up together because people claim he was a productive replacement for Hill. When in reality he filled a hole in the offense that Hill never played. Also, They played the same number of games last season with Hill missing a number of games due to his injury. The production was pretty damn close. Nelson has slightly more catches and 1 more TD where hill has more YAC and yards per catch. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
