... thanks guys for the welcome . Pretty kewl getting feedback on my thoughts. I especially have always enjoyed reading posts on GG. ( many well spoken fans here ) This site is great for insightful views.. I have learned a lot reading here over the years. Might sound biased, but I think Jets' fans are more savvy than giants' fans. ( typical frontrunners / bandwagon fans ) Don't get me wrong... I am sure there must be intelligent giants' fans, but none that I know of.. . LaJet : if teddy is available.... the offer to trade down .... better be awesome. and as far as what fans expect ----> taking a QB ... would be a mild surprise.
My issue with Thomas is twofold. He is an awful QB--he has a gun of an arm and is a beast of a man, but he is woefully inaccurate (never once at VTech was he even a 60% guy--in college today--guys are routinely completing 65% to 72% of their passes) and he doesn't have a high football IQ for the position. A beast, but not a good QB. And the switching guys to other positions theory rarely if ever works. He hasn't run a pattern or caught a pass in 4 years--and that was back in HS when he was probably so much physically bigger than everyone else. There are probably 20 guys who actually are tight ends in college that will be available in rounds 6-7 and FA that are simply better TEs than him. You're drafting him because of his name, imagining that he can become something you'd hope he'd become. Hope is not a strategy. Like people suggesting Tebow should move to TE--wrong--he never ran patterns or caught passes. _
and Jimmy Graham was just a basketball player.... Thomas was rated as one of the top high school TE's in the country coming out of high school. He was recruited to play TE but reluctantly converted to QB at VT. He was a strong running QB but a very poor passer throughout his college career. He had a very good combine and pro day. That is what is enticing some of the draftniks with the Cam Newton comparisons but the reality is closer to a slower but more powerful Terrelle Pryor. As a QB I would not draft him, he will bust. However, as a TE I would draft him. He's an absolute beast; Based on the measurables he is an Elite TE prospect. The problem is what Stokes touches on in the above, we have no idea how he will play on the field or if he can even catch the ball. If he had embraced the idea and worked out with with the TE's instead of the QB's he might have gotten drafted as high as the 2nd round. If ASJ and Amaro are gone, I'd take Thomas before any other TE's. I understand this board is against "project picks" due to the Ducasse faisco and ongoing Stephen Hill saga but getting Thomas in the 6th with the full intention of converting to TE would be a huge steal.
Wait a minute. He played his last year for Miami at TE--he played TE at the very highest level in college. Thomas did not. Graham played for a whole season meaning he spent an entire year working on the craft of being a receiving TE--running routes and catching balls. Big difference. _
Actually, I'd take most of those guys you mentioned above Carr. I rate Mettenberger, Savage, Garoppolo, Fales, and McCarron all above Carr. I think all those guys are more likely to be good or great. I do agree with the premise of your mentality here. I would welcome taking a first round QB if he's that franchise guy. Bridgewater, hell yes. but Carr, hell no. I also think you can find that franchise guy in the 2nd or 3rd if you're smart. Nick Foles and Russell Wilson come to mind. Using our first on a guy that's likely no better than Geno would be a royal waste. Carr worked in a pre-designed quick read offense just like Geno, and we all see now how inflated Geno's college stats were, it did not translate to the NFL. However, Carr's throwing technique is much better than Geno, in fact it's very good, but so is Blaine Gabbert's. Another thing Carr and Gabbert have in common is that their performance significantly drops when they are under pressure, it goes from great/good to terrible.
I totally agree, but if we assume just average ability (i.e., he can catch the ball), then based solely on the measurables he is easily in the top 5 if you are including him in TE draft rankings.
By the way, I like Fuller. He will but a good and solid player. but at 18 overall he is a huge reach. No way he should be the third CB off the board and you're fooling yourself if you think he'd be a sure plug and play as our #2 on the outside to start the season, because he's not. If that's what we're looking for I'm going with Roby or Verrett.
That's my point. That's why it's NOT a waste. I don't agree, Carr is a much better thrower than Geno was in colleg, especially on intermediate and deep routes. As strong as Geno's arm, Carrs is stronger. Geno's stats were inflated because of the shovel passes he pretty much handed off to Austin who took them for 60-70-80-90 yard gains. Carrs screens were to the sidelines and worked as their defacto running game. And Carr's football IQ is 100x Geno's. Not saying Geno won't turn out to be a player, I'd just rather build around a more intelligent QB. I can't even discuss Gabbert in the same paragraph with Carr. _
I was pretty high on Carr for a while but dude, go back and watch the throws under pressure, it does not look good at all. that combined with inflated stats, mediocre performance vs the better competition, mediocre size, overall mediocre grade metrics makes me say no thanks.
I totally agree that I think Thomas will bust as a QB. I agree with the basic premise of the rest of your response. As I said, I'd have concerns unless he was taken in a lower round. Even then, taking him could cause the Jets to miss out on a quality starter if Idzik can draft anywhere near as well as Schneider in Seattle can. That said, there are successful conversions every year in the NFL. Just as they did with Moore, they're attempting to do the same thing with Campbell now. Surely, that's a much harder switch than converting from QB to TE. His time at QB might actually help him with his route running and being able to find the open spots in zones as a TE. He DOES have all the physical measurables to be a successful TE in the NFL. Based on what Mangolded posted, he was a darned good TE in high school, so I doubt that he has forgotten how to catch the ball. With his athletic ability, unless he just as dumb as a stump, I would think that he'd be able to catch up in a hurry with quality coaching and hard work (if he has a strong work ethic). He probably wouldn't be any more of a project than Sudfeld or Pantale, and probably has a much higher ceiling. Of course, they're already on the roster and wouldn't cost the Jets a draft pick. All of that is to say that I won't be upset if he's on board with being drafted as a TE, is willing to forget about playing QB in the NFL, and the Jets draft him in the 5th round or lower. I will be upset if they draft him as a QB or if he hasn't agreed to the switch and they draft him hoping they can convince him to switch.
Everyone falters under pressure, he has more than enough size, his mechanics are great and his stats are pretty in line with his production. He threw a lot of screens but his mid range and deep ball production was exceptional as well. His stats were no where near as inflated as Geno's. _
I find the only positions that have much chance of being successful on a change is on the offensive and defensive lines. Although I would LOVE to pick up Jordan Lynch and make him our Julian Edelman. _
Welcome RicardoC! And yes, Jint fans are Mike Francessa ball-washing parrots. Jet fans wear green ……… Giant fans wear plaid.
I think all the QBs in this class top to bottom have issues to straighten out with Bridgewater having the least. At the same time I believe top to bottom there are several prospects in this draft with as much if not more talent than Geno. This is why I have no qualms with picking a mid or lower round QB. Bridgewater and Manziel are the only ones that would make the 18th pick difficult for me.
Dunno, QB converts have been pretty successful if not done often. I think it's the fact QBs have to learn pretty much all the offensive positions anyway. Hines Ward Jeremy Kerley Ronald Curry Brad Smith Peter Warrick Michael Bush Michael Robinson Joshua Cribbs Anttwaan Randle El Curtis Conway Anquan Boldin Julian Edelman Freddie Solomon Brian Mitchell Maurice Avery
Yeah but most of those guys were pure athletes that can play WR or running back (a lot of them were dual threat guys) and most of them had already made the switch in college (noted above). They had already learned the position and played it successfully on the college level. When Marvin Harrison showed up at Syracuse, he was a QB but we had Marvin Graves at QB so he was immediately switched to WR. I just don't see Thomas agreeing to make the switch a la Tebow and I can't recall a QB ever making a successful switch to TE. The guy I could easily see making the switch is Jordan Lynch. _
I think Lynch might be better as a FB than say a TE. Think Michael Robinson of Penn St though Lynch is much more built.
No, not as a TE--he's only 6 foot 220, as an HBack or slot receiver. He's a great runner with the ball. _
