Case for drafting secondary early

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by GangGreenBlues, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Do you seriously believe he is happy with it? Really? I guess you will find out on the first or second day of the draft and until then we can just shelve it and keep our own opinions.
     
  2. The 1985er

    The 1985er Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    9,070
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    IMO Cromartie may not have been as bad as folks here think he was in '13 but he wasn't that great to say that losing Cro would be that much of a liability. Plus Walls IMO will take a step up and you have guys like Dowling, Patrick and Patterson that were brought in and we still have the draft. And we can get a June 1st cut. To this point we have addressed CB and we still have time to add to the CB depth chart.
     
  3. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    22,232
    Likes Received:
    12,245
    Around draft time, people tend to lie or exaggerate about certain things. Ever heard of smoke-screens?

    No one will say their true intentions before the draft.
     
  4. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Fortunately we will have that answer in less than two weeks finally.
     
  5. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    5,359
    Likes Received:
    5,077
    Being happy with a CB corp prior to the draft doesn't imply you are totally satisfied to the point of not adding a player to it in said draft. It is obvious they are closely monitoring the top CB's in the draft, just look at who they have brought in for visits. The Jets are not counting on the CB or CB's they like best to be available, which is why they have brought in guys who are considered 2nd and 3rd round CB prospects as well. If the CB or CB's they would consider taking with the 18th pick are not available, they will probably go with the best S or WR based on the players considered the top talents around pick 18, which is only made more likely based on the players they have brought in for visits.
     
  6. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    He is happy or he is not. He thinks we need one or we don't. When he takes one will answer both.
     
  7. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    5,359
    Likes Received:
    5,077
    That is close minded thinking and perfectly sums up why your opinion is not widely respected here.
     
  8. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    52,078
    Likes Received:
    23,837
    Did Idzik specify where that need at corner was?
     
  9. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    You prefer to continue pulling opinions out of your ass be my guest but the only answers that matter are what he does in the draft and that is 10 days away.
     
  10. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    I have no idea what you are asking but his exact comment was " We recognize we have a need at corner", maybe he meant they need a school crossing guard, who knows?
     
  11. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    52,078
    Likes Received:
    23,837
    You could have just stopped at "I have no idea what you are asking", because the rest of your post is pretty embarrassing. Not that you're a stranger to that.
     
  12. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Haha..well then why don't you explain it instead of just acting immature.
     
  13. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    52,078
    Likes Received:
    23,837
    How many CB slots do most NFL teams use for their 53 man roster? How many does Rex use? Then you layer that with how many can play gunner position in STs, how many can block on punt teams, how many can shift to nickel safety...

    There are many responsibilities at the CB position in the NFL besides the starting position. Just saying "there is a need at the CB position" doesn't mean exactly one thing.
     
    The 1985er likes this.
  14. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    His entire quote was this.

    "We recognize we have a need at corner," Idzik said. "But there's plenty of road ahead of us before we get to camp."

    That tells me a couple of things. He wanted to sign a STARTING CB during FA and didn't get it done. He doesn't want to take somebody off the scrap heap at the end of camp and that gives him two choices, either draft one or trade for one. By now going public with his comments he really has no choice. I believe he will draft one early because of it. Everybody is more than entitled to their opinions and I will not jump down their throats because of it. We are close to getting answers and only time will tell. Here is a link to the entire article.

    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/20...e_recognize_we_have_a_need_at_cornerback.html
     
  15. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    52,078
    Likes Received:
    23,837
    I know what his quote was. You asked me to explain myself and then you predictably ignored it. This is why you are the urinal of TGG. You think in absolutes and cannot comprehend anything else.
     
  16. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    5,359
    Likes Received:
    5,077

    You could also take it that he understands that who is on the team is not sufficient competition at CB, and thus they "need" to add more to the competition. You're making an assumption even though there are multiple viable possibilities. Besides, if it were so obvious to the league from that statement that he needs a starting corner, he is basically saying to the league "Hey, if you want a top corner you better trade ahead of us and get him!" Do you really think he is that dumb?

    Before I even start, I am aware we run a multiple defense. Most of our defense runs out of a 3-4 personnel package, in which we use 2 man coverage CB's, with safeties playing man coverage or a 1 deep safety look. Antonio Allen is a useful player because of the fact that he can play vs the run and also cover a TE in man coverage, something that many strong safeties can't do well. He is stouter vs the run than many FS who can man cover, and his physicality at the line helps him in press coverage vs big strong TE's like Gronk.

    Kyle Wilson is another important piece to the secondary, because he can play press man coverage and off man coverage vs slot WR's which is really hard to do. Most are fast and extremely quick off the line, and it requires amazing balance and quickness on the part of the CB. Wilson is strong enough vs the run and can put a hit on a receiver making a catch. Kyle Wilson will generally sub in for a safety while the Jets maintain a 3-4 front, or an LB as the Jets switch to a 4-3 front, which makes him very valuable. Most slot CB's are not stout enough vs the run, and are only swapped in on 5 DB sets, but Wilson is available for a lot of valuable defensive snaps vs teams who often run in 3 WR sets. Generally defenses have to put a safety into coverage vs the 3rd receiver, and most safeties are not good in man coverage vs a quick slot WR. That is why many teams, especially 4-3 teams play a lot of zone coverages.

    The Jets also have Dee Milliner, an extremely talented overall CB. He has a rare combination balance, agility, strength, speed, and ball skills that make up his ability to match up 1 on 1 vs the most physically gifted WR's in the league. He may never achieve the level of film breakdown and technical perfection Revis was known for, but there is no doubt he has the physical gifts to theoretically be better. Milliner's success hinges completely on his confidence. You can see what he can do when confident late in the season vs Josh Gordon and Mike Wallce, something changed in his psyche. That is very promising in a young player.

    Dawan Landry's gifts are much less impressive than any of the others I've listed, in his younger days he had better range but at this age he is just a guy too small to play LB but quick enough to get up the field and can diagnose a running lane pretty well. At his age, Landry isn't really athletic enough for any kind of coverage responsibility you wouldn't give to an average LB.

    What we've added this offseason in Demitri Patterson is another capable slot cornerback who can match up well against a team that has two good slot CB's. He is basically called a dime CB, and most teams only use one on say 3rd and 20 or some "prevent defense" scenarios. It is very difficult to accumulate enough good CB's to have an effective dime CB, which is why the Patriots have been so successful with multiple slot WR sets. The Jets have just added the guy who will match up with Edelman, while Wilson matches up with Amendola.

    The Jets brought in Johnny Patrick as well, because while they want Patterson to play the dime CB, his injury history makes them want some insurance. Patrick plays slot as well primarily, as he can play the run and has pass rushing ability from that position.

    Darrin Walls and Ras-I Dowling are currently the main competitors for the second outside CB position. Walls was undrafted and Dowling was the 33rd overall pick back in 2011 for the Pats. Walls came into the league with talent but a lot of developing to do, and Dowling never lived up to his talent or draft status. Both have the potential to become quality players in the league, though the odds are somewhat against that happening. Competition tends to bring out the best in players.

    Ellis Lankster is further depth at the slot position, though his main value is as an outstanding special teamer.

    Finally, the safety depth is rounded out by Josh Bush, a 6th round FS, and Jaiquawn Jarrett, a 2nd round SS from the Eagles 2011 draft. Neither player is prepared for a major role in the defense, though there is some talent present in Jarrett. It is possible he could step up and play a bigger role in the rotation, or fade from the roster.

    The Jets have a lot of pieces, here, and a lot of flexibility in the upcoming draft. They can take the best player available, it doesn't really matter what position. If they get a safety in round 1 they can get a CB to compete on day 2. If they get a CB in the first round they can get a safety in rounds 2 or 3. If they go WR round 1, they can get the other two on day 2. No position is so empty that we can't function if we don't spend a first round pick on it. I see no reason we can't put a CB from the second round into competition for the outside job.
     
    #376 MaximusD163, Apr 28, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  17. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    52,078
    Likes Received:
    23,837
    Max, I really dig your style, but there is something to be said for brevity.
     
    joe likes this.
  18. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    5,359
    Likes Received:
    5,077
    Lol anything worth doing is worth doing well, so if someone says explain it I want to really explain it. Honestly I have to limit what I put into these posts sometimes because I just get going.
     
  19. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    52,078
    Likes Received:
    23,837
    I get you. Sometimes you have to pick your battles, but I get you.
     
  20. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    11,660
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    no, I established you were hysterical by your irrational reasoning. the claim of hysteria came as a result of the argument against your position, not in absence of it.
    you certainly did equate not signing Revis to tanking the season because you are clearly stating to Mezzavo that by not improving the corner position for the sake of carrying over cap space that the front office was tanking the season. This claim by you came in conjunction to your previous position that the Jets should have signed Revis, or any other corner, and thus applies to Revis as well. The idea that you are attempting to claim that those are two different arguments is pathetic. you can't say that the Jets are tanking the season by not improving the corners, criticize the Jets for not signing Revis, and then say that doesn't equate to saying that not signing Revis and failing to improving the corners isn't an accusation the Jets are tanking the season by not signing Revis. your position is that by not signing any corner the Jets are tanking the season. since we are talking about Revis, and since Revis is a corner, and you advocated signing Revis, clearly your argument applies to Revis.

    certain things do not need to be stated explicitly to apply except for the simple minded that need everything spelled out for them while also not understanding how their arguments apply to one another.
     
    joe likes this.

Share This Page