I think it comes down to the Jets being really schizo in terms of their confidence and ability to rate players. They have simultaneously considered themselves capable of calling shots on elite players and trading up for them while also obviously not believing they could find hidden gems in later rounds in the draft. It's like the strangest dichotomy you could imagine. "We're sheer geniuses in the 1st and 2nd round but can't find a candle in the dark in the 4th through 7th rounds." So there go 2-3 picks a year thrown away to move up for sure things that turn out to be not so sure most of the time.
Our success rate in the 2nd round is God awful also throughout the years now that I look back. This draft is going to tell us almost everything we wanted to know about Idzik and his thought process.
I think the Jets success rate in trading up is minimal at best. They hit on Revis, at great cost to the franchise, and basically broke even or lost on just about everything else. You could look at Tanny's sudden propensity to trade draft picks for vets as a realization that the Jets draft department was just woefully bad.
Tanny wasn't gunning for long-term success though, he was going out all guns blazing putting his cards on the table, the moment he was hired. It didn't matter how wide open the window was, as long as there was a small opening he was ready to go. You have to wonder if the Jets have learned their lesson in regards to that.
I don't think Idzik is a good personnel man and might rely on scouts more than he should. That is a bad thing because Terry Bradway is still in the organization and others like Rod Graves were not so good at Arizona. I agree with you on the 2nd round picks Alex Van Dyke, Ralph Clayton, Marion Barber, Lellen Clemens but we struck gold with Mark Gastineau.
Right and this was supposed to be a "rebuilding year"and into the future drafting players. Whether we know it or not ,this year certainly looks like both win now and win later. Difference is that Idzik much better, smarter, at this game than Tannenbaum and drives a harder bargain.
Bradway has always been a good scout. Bad GM, but good in the scouting department. He was also the one that wanted Russell Wilson. Bradway is good in my book.
I suggest you do some research. Info has been posted on this site regarding Idzik's experience as a personnel man. The jury is still out on him, but he is no Tanny, that much is clear. There are some questions about Graves, but I believe he is on the Pro Personnel side, not the College Scouting side of things. Bradway was horrible negotiating contracts and made some bad draft picks, but also made some very good ones, and some of the better players the Jets have had over the last 10 years or so are due to Terry Bradway. Normally, I would never think that someone who has been fired from one position should be kept on in another position with the same organization, but overall, I think the Jets and we may be lucky that he is still with us.
It's not just the trade ups for bad players. The Jets haven't gotten a star playmaker on offense out of the draft since Bradway came to town. They spent 9 picks on offensive skill positions from rounds 1 to 3 from 2001 to 2012 without getting a single guy worth remembering. That's terrible. That's Cleveland Browns bad.
Idzik does not have a long sustained body of work as a scout and when he was with Seattle he was on the financial side. That part of Idzik has been the most pronounce since he has been here. He wouldn't explode the Jets salary cap for Revis, didn't sign Cromartie, cut Holmes and Sanchez all monetary moves. Outside of Chris Johnson I like nothing about the offseason free agents he signed or resigned.
Jet skill position draft picks since Bradway arrived. The only round 1 and 2 picks were Sanchez, Moss, Hill, Clemens, Smith, Keller and Lamont Jordan and the scouting department was against the Sanchez pick but Rex wanted him. Moss worked out quite well. Jordan had moments and contributed. Hill was a raw prospect who was injured most all of his two years. Playing almost every game injured last year. It seems he may have a chronic knee condition and might never get a chance to develop. While I am far from a Hill fan I don't think one can judge him entirely on talent until he actually gets a couple of years of experience which at this point it is doubtful he may get.Also keep in mind if it was up to Bradway the Jets would have drafted Russel Wilson and not Hill in round 2. Clemens while not a star has had a solid career but because of circumstances never got much of a chance to prove himself. Keller where he was talen in the draft has performed average to above average. Round 3 picks were Baker (solid career), Askew, and Greene. Round 4 picks were Cothcery, Brad Smith, Leon Washington, McKnight, and Powell Overall like you said there were no stars outside Moss. But the picks are very solid and above average for the position they were taken. Certainly the rounds 3 and 4 picks were well above average. Keep in mind that a late 1st rounder at best has a 50-50 chance of flaming out and becoming a complete bust. Prett much all these players outside of Sanchez, Hill and Askew have been solid players who have contributed and had decent NFL careers. In fact the non bust rate of these players is amazingly high. The fact that pretty much everyone has gone on a to a productive NFL career is testament to the Jet scouting department.
He had major input into the draft and scouting when he was with Tampa Bay and also Seattle, and his opinions was greatly valued and respected. Again, I suggest you do some more reading. I'm sorry you don't like any of Idzik's other signings. That's your privilege, but personally, I think it's kind of short-sighted and silly. Not a single snap has been played yet. You don't know what the players he signed will or won't contribute. In terms of the moves he didn't make, that's not just about dollars and cents for those players and the cap. It's about maintaining the team's salary structure, it's about respecting the players he has on hand and wanting to be able to retain them, it's about bringing in players he thinks can help the team long term and who have the character, attitude and commitment he wants in the team. It's about building a strong foundation so that the team will be strong for years, not going "all in" like Tanny every year which was not only a pipe dream, but downright foolish. Tanny, in spite of his degrees an education, is a moron. He doesn't understand one thing about the game, and has little common sense. He will never work in the NFL as a GM again and rightfully so. Idzik is going about things in the right way. Has he made mistakes or will he? Yes. He's human and none of us are perfect. But he's the best GM the Jets have had in a long, long time, and he deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point.
Moss wasn't a star. One Pro Bowl appearance in his career. The Jets have not drafted an offensive star in a generation now. The last guy who qualified was Keyshawn in 1996 and even he was a vanilla star not a big playmaker.
Interesting comparison as Moss has more TDs, 390 less receiving yards than Keyshawn, more rushing yards and Moss is still going. Not to mention that Moss had a significant contribution in the return game as well. It is fair to say Moss has had a better career especially when one considers how dangerous he was in the return game. Remember the the punt return he had against Pitt in the 2004 playoffs after his long bomb TD helped us beat SD the round before. Those 2 plays almost put us in the championship game. But even if one does not believe Moss was better than Keyshawn its hard to say Keyshawn has had a better career. Like or hate Terry Bradway its hard to say Moss was not a star and not a game changer. He was a great deep threat, an amazing punt returner and is currently 38th all time in receiving yards, 39th in receptions, 43rd in receiving TDs and is still moving up on the lists. A fair criticism of the Moss pick is not picking Moss but what we gave up to move from 19 to 16 to get Moss when it was very likely if not certain Moss would have been there at 19.
You're arguing with a guy that thinks Dee Ford is too slow to be a 3-4 OLB, don't waste your breathe.
Not only slow but wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to slow and has BUST tattoo all over him. Make sure you man up (or women up) when he does stink. I will if he doesn't.
In a 13 year career to date Moss has 5 seasons at 70+ catches. He has 4 seasons at 1K+ yards. He has 1 season of double digit TD's and he managed 10 that year. That's not a star. Good receiver, yes, star no. When a star WR has less than 70 catches in a year it's an unusual event. When they don't break 1k yards it's unusual. The TD's is more subjective but averaging 5 TD's a year for your career is very low for a star level receiver.
