I don't watch college football, so I was just looking at draft profiles of some of the top corners available this year. Seems like Gilbert is generally considered the best CB in the draft, and will probably be gone before our pick (18th). Dennard is more likely to still be available by the time we pick, although he could be gone too. Everybody thinks Dennard fits our scheme better (being a physical press corner), but I dunno, after reading the profiles, I am getting a bit of Kyle Wilson vibe from him. Smaller guy, not a great athlete, kinda slow. Seems risky for a first round pick. He's much slower than guys like Revis, Milliner, Gilbert, although a bit faster than Sherman, but Sherman is big, so he can count on that to save him if he gets behind the WR, Dennard can't, plus I think Sherman is a bit overrated, playing with such great teammates. So, all in all, I would be afraid to spend a first round pick on a guy whose ceiling seems to be decent player, rather than great. Gilbert, on the other hand, has all the tools, the only knock on him is lack of physicality in the running game and not fitting within our defense as well as Dennard. This doesn't worry me though, with our D-Line and linebackers up front, the runners will rarely get beyond the front seven. And as far as being a bad fit, I'd rather have a guy who can stick with a WR and make plays and shut that side down than someone who is a bit better in the other aspects of the game. So personally, since we have so many draft picks in the mid rounds, if Gilberts lasts until 10+ pick, I would love to see Idzik trade up a bit, using some of our mid round picks. I know we have a lot of needs, but pairing up Gilbert and Milliner could potentially give us the scariest secondary down the line in the league. If we can't swing a decent deal like that, and Dennard is available, I think I would draft somebody else in the first round and draft a corner in 2nd or 3rd rounds. Those are more risky, but at least the pick isn't as high. What do you guys think?
I wont say Ive seen a lot of Dennard but from the little I did see of him he does seem pretty slow. Has a hard time turning around on the ball on deep routes. I remember hearing similar things about Milliner. We need to fill the CB need through a trade. Just to get someone with more seasoning opposite Milliner. It is going to be interesting which direction Idzik goes if Dennard is there at 18 and so are guys like Lee and Beckham. The Jets seem to be higher on Lee then any other prospect out there.
Further evidence that Idzik screwed up by not getting one of the many CBs available in FA. Now we may have to burn a first round pick on a guy that is far from a sure thing. Sucks.
We not only heard it about Milliner but we saw it last year too. He did get better in the end though.
Yup, Roby in the 2nd, Watkins in the 3rd, or EJ Gaines in the 4th. I think any of the 3 would be able to contribute right away as needed.
It transferred over to the pro game for sure but Im just talking about what was said about him pre-draft. Might be risky to have two guys like that starting Week 1. IMO next to QB, CB is the hardest position in the league to just jump right into as a rookie. Also to be fair to Milliner , the defense he was playing in at Alabama didnt really call for him to run with WR's. Huge red flag but like you said he did get better as the season went on so lets hope thats a good sign. I know Im not the only one that doesnt want to put up with another Milliner-like first 12-13 games from another rookie CB though. The way I see it is not many CB's in the league were worse then Cro last season. Whether injuries or whatever played a factor is a moot point now. He's gone and we have a huge void. But getting a middle of the pack vet in here (Jonathan Joseph) would be smart. Then if there is a CB available in Rd 3 or 4 that we can bring along slowly Id be all for that.
I love when people try to lay out a scouting report based off of other scouting reports. It's fun. Dennard is one of my favorite corners to come out in awhile, he is my number one rated corner. You should go watch some of his game film before you just randomly spew out false information like you just did. He is a much better prospect coming out of college than Milliner. I like Milliner a lot but Dennard has the potential to be something very special in this league. He literally blanketed every top WR that Michigan faced, consistently throughout his entire college career. He is physical, he is a great man to man corner, he is fluid with his hips, and his technique is on a whole other level. As far as him being "slow", that is over hyped. To put it in perspective, I think he compares a lot to Darrelle Revis. I'm not saying he will match that caliber of play but he has a very good chance to do so. Revis 40 Time - 4.38 Dennard 40 Time - 4.42 I mean, that's fast. I don't care who you are, that is fast. The only thing that Gilbert has over Dennard is athletic ability, that is it. Gilbert is not consistently dominate like Dennard. Dennard flat out dominated week in and week out, every Saturday. Destroyed my Buckeyes.. Destroyed them. I would take Dennard over anyone in this draft at that position all day long. I think he should be a top 10 pick to be honest. That's how good he is.
Roby is not worth picking in the second. He's just not. I would take a lot of other corners over Roby. I'm a Buckeyes fan, it hurts me to say it, but he's not worth it. Just because your athletic, doesn't mean you will translate into a good football player. IE: Vernon Gholston. :/
I personally wouldn't. I don't think he is going to be a very good corner in the league, I really don't. I think he will be a journeyman, special teams type of player in this league. That's what my gut tells me. Then you factor in all of his red flags, it's hard to gauge. I'm glad I'm not in that position, but I personally wouldn't do it. He went to Ohio State and sometimes these kids think that they've already made it because of the program they are coming from, you see it all the time. I think Roby is one of those guys, I know a lot of ppl in the Columbus area that feel the same way. So.. I would pass. He will likely be taken in the 3rd or 4th round at this point though, I really can see him falling come draft day.
Who's other scouting report? If what I said about Dennard is found in scouting reports you've seen then I guess there's something to it then. Plus who says what I wrote is a scouting report? Its my opinion on the limited play Ive seen from him. If you seen more of him then you should atleast know where Im coming from. But nothing you put up about him is negative. Bottom line is he isnt a cant miss prospect. Plenty of question marks.
If you're going to claim he's your favorite CB prospect in the last few years, you should at least know what school he goes to.
I'm more concerned with the use of another high draft pick to hopefully prop up an area that we could have delt with someone we can be very confident would come in and contribute with a draft pick that may not pan out and maybe we could have used it elsewhere in another area of need. I get that people don't want to overpay (although it seems some people believe every single player that we didn't sign was an "overpay" by the team that got him) but if we don't get a legit starting CB in the draft this year then we either have to draft another one next year or sign one in free agency. IMO I would rather have a bit less cap space but have the CB position locked up for years to come instead of pinning our hopes that we've addressed it through the use of (another) draft pick that may or may not be a legitimate starting caliber CB and potentially have to worry about addressing it again next year via free agency or using another draft pick. If we were guaranteed to get a starting caliber CB then I wouldn't really care, I'd be all for it actually with the cap saving it would allow, but nothing is guaranteed with draft picks. Look at Milliner, he struggled for 3/4 of the season and got benched a few times. If that happens again with this draft pick and he's not capable of picking up the slack we are going to be screwed. We would be far better off having picked up a legit starting caliber CB to be our #1 guy and take the pressure off of Milliner. Anyway, this thread isn't really about this so I don't want to go on about it. I'm not happy that we're probably going to be drafting another CB high up, possibly with our first rounder, but that's where we are. All I can hope is that whoever we pick ends up being some kind of superstar and sets us up for years to come with a talented young CB duo.
I like Kyle Fuller, if he falls to the 2nd round Jets should grab him. Lamarcus Joyner can play both safety and corner, I like his value in the mid rounds as well.
It depends on what you want from your first round CB. Justin Gilbert: -Highly athletic/fluid -Plays the ball in the air well -Good in off-man -Good closing speed on the ball -Not physically dominant at the line -Does not play the run consistently Darqueze Dennard: -Good athleticism -Best in press-man -Physically dominates at the line -Good body positioning down the field -Sure and physical vs the run -Questionable off-man When you're looking at these two guys, the main reason Gilbert is frequently ranked better is because of pure athleticism and hip fluidity. They are corners that are ideal for different systems, and if you want your CB to contribute early, you need to know what you want out of him. What I envision with Dennard on the team is that he would likely play on the line almost every play, and his primary responsibility is going to be getting his hands on the WR early, disrupting routes, and allowing our pass rush to do it's work. Because of his good body placement as he covers down the field, a lot of balls will be thrown away for no gain. He separates from WR blocks well and aggressively attacks the RB, and understands how to turn a runner back towards the middle of the field for the LB's to make the tackle if he knows he can't alone. All rookie CB's will have limitations, but Dennard's limitations fit the best into our scheme. If opposing teams want to try and expose Dennard, they will have to formulate ways of getting him off-man, like bunch formations. That sounds easy enough, but remember that means you have to pull WR's from other sides of the field, and there are ways to combat that with safety help etc. Dennard is very heady player, more than people realize, and he does an excellent job understanding who he should cover in such situations. He can be used on complicated zone blitzes because of his superior understanding of scheme. Gilbert is a better fit for a team that runs primarily off man coverages, general a team that runs a 4-3 most of the time. Gilbert is the type of CB that you want if you don't play shutdown defense, the kind that fits right in if you give up yardage but are good at scoring, and want to create turnovers. Dennard would buy right into Rex's defense, and can be utilized in a number of ways.
Wrong. There are so many good CB's in the draft, it would have been a waste to spend so much money on one when we are in good position to get a contributing CB in round 1 or 2 or even 3. It's wasteful to spend money on the secondary with such a good defensive line, which is why we spent the majority of our FA money on offensive players. We can draft a CB and have his limitations covered by the D-line and Rex's scheme, but we can't have drafted a WR that will instantly be a security blanket for Geno (Mark my words, Decker will be just that), an RB that would push Ivory and be such a bonus in the passing game (CJ2K), or a Veteran QB who can push Geno but that we aren't committing to long term. Basically, in FA we signed what we NEED but CAN'T get in the draft, and secondary players that don't need to be great immediately are something we can get in the draft.
Oh, get another 1st rounder like Wilson, right? You never know what you are getting in the draft and besides we have money to burn.
