Wtf? I had my own "guess" as to what kind if player Geno was. I never thought under any scenario he was a first round talent, certainly not with either of our 2 first rounders. But I recognized that he was a very talented thrower who with some development MIGHT develop into a very serviceable QB and considering our need at QB was huge value for us. You either can't read what I've said or just can't understand it. First round "grades" by draft gurus are just stupid IMO. If it's not a grade by a real NFL GM or talent scout it's just a guess. You can point out all the magazines and articles and blogs saying this player or that player has a first round grade and you can believe it if you want. I think that's stupid. I judge players on what I see, then I make my guess. But you go with Kipers or McShays grades if it makes you feel better. _
Very talented throwers who with some development MIGHT develop into a very serviceable QBs can be had in the day 3 of the draft or even as UDFAs. I don't see how drafting a player you feel does not have first round talent under any scenario 39th overall is a "huge value". It may fill a need but it's not a "huge value" pick if you feel that way about the player. At the start of day 2 there's always the opportunity to get "huge value" because not all of the players you assigned 1st round grades or feel had first round talent get drafted in the first round due to various reasons. Maybe you are just really loose with your use of the term "huge value". To me getting a top 15 overall talent at 39 is "huge value". Getting 2nd round-or-later grade/talent in the 2nd round is at best a solid pick or a reach depending your opinions on the player and who else was available.
In today's NFL, not reaching for a QB is almost considered value pick. Reaching on QB's is more the norm than the exception.
I think you have that backwards but whatever. Getting arguably the 1 or 2 best QBs in the draft is value depending on where you get them. Even in a weak draft for QBs, getting one of the top 2 guys is value, not having to reach for them in round 1 with either of our pics IMO equates to huge value. If we had picked him at 9 or 13, I would have had a completely different view. He wasn't a top 15 talent, sorry, he wasn't. And I don't believe taking a development guy in rounds 5-7 is any value at all, I think it's basically throwing a pick away. But that's just me. _
We always got Mariota and Winston if our boy cant get it done and btw i think those 2 r better then this qbs tbh , btw you saw how i was right about Tajh Boyd dude been falling and falling xd
We'll just have to see how he works out, won't we Btw, with a Rex led defense, we're never going to be in a position to land either Mariota or Winston. IMHO, Mariota is the better QB. _
FTR I don't think Geno was top 15 talent; just providing a general example of what I deem would be a "huge value".
Got it. I just don't look at what grade some prognostigators give to players as their true "grade" by NFL/FO types. It's a nice gauge, it's fun to read and play around with, but it's not dispositive IMHO. We really don't know if, for example, Manziel has a round 1 grade by any team or whether he's really a 2nd or 3rd rounder. If he goes mid-round 2, then that's your answer. If he goes top 5 or top 3 or top 2, that's your answer. _
You keep inferring to prognosticators as though they are the only ones capable of assigning grades. Draft grades are nothing more than opinions on players; opinions are available to all. Now going back to the following argument: "Getting arguably the 1 or 2 best QBs in the draft is value depending on where you get them...getting one of the top 2 guys is value, not having to reach for them in round 1 with either of our pics IMO equates to huge value." Using this logic, drafting the best long snapper in the draft with the 39th pick would also be "huge value". What if the top 2 QBs are not better than the 200th best player available based on own your personal method of evaluating? Are you still getting "huge value"? My point remains that you can only assess value by first establishing some kind of baseline whether it's a board, rankings, ratings, grades, opinions...whatever. Then you can say Player X was a "huge value" because I thought he was the #th best player or top [insert #] in the draft and we were able to get with the #th pick. You can't say we got huge value because we got one of the top 2 [insert position] without having to use one of my first round picks.
Hard to trust what you read out there. Some are saying Bridgewater is no longer a first round prospect. I remember a time when everything you read said, Geno was a top 10 pick.
Or his performance in college gave us an idea that he may be a 1st round talent? And why would a team reveal their draft board? You've basically hedged your bets in this debate since it can't be proven one way or the other. But on a side note wasn't Geno the Jets top rated QB on their board? Where as EJ Manuel was the top QB on their board?
The punter issue is such a red herring, not really worth addressing, and while I agree with you that--just like the skinniest girl in fat camp--the top 1 or 2 QBs may not be better than the 200th best non-QB player, but I think you're understating the value of the position vis a vis every other position in sports. And I thought last years QB class was awful, but having said that, I'm also a firm believer in drafting a QB every year until you find your franchise QB--and not just any developmental QB in round 6 or 7 in hopes of finding a gem--that's just throwing away a pick (where I'd rather draft a punter). Getting a talented QB like Geno, where we got him--IMHO was huge value because he COULD be that franchise guy. I'm not giving it great odds because I think he's lacking in the football IQ area, but Geno was a better option than what was available at that pick BECAUSE of the value I put on the QB position. My view on players isn't about assigning grades, it's what I think of them. I think there are 5 or 6 QBs in this draft that could be franchise guys--so if I was assigning grades I'd give them ALL first round grades--but again, that's not how I look at it. I look at it based upon the intrinsic talent I think they have relative to the talent of the guys available at that spot. Geno was huge value at 39 because--given the premium I put on the position--he was worth WAY more than anyone else on the board. That doesn't mean I had him "graded" as a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder, just that I looked at him as the best option to take at that point. And I thought the rest of the QB class REALLY sucked so I didn't want to wait until round 3 or 4 or 5 or later to pick up utter crap. As much as I disliked the class, I'd rather have Geno in the 2nd than Tyler Wilson or Ryan Nassib or Matt Barkley in the 4th--complete throw away picks. Look who was left on the board at 39--not a player that I would rate above Geno given the position he playes. Again, Geno wasn't huge value because we somehow stole a sure-fire first rounder in the second round. Nope, not the case. _ _
I watched Geno in college as much as anyone, live and on the tube. I never saw him as a first round talent, I never saw anyone in that class as a first round talent. But I did see him as talented enough to take him where we did, given what was left on the board. And my issue is with folks suggesting ANY player was graded as anything without having seen what teams actually had them graded at. That's not a hedge against anything--it's just reality. Show mw a grade you can PROVE? Other than where a player was taken. But you go believe all your draft guides and magazines and blogs, completely your perogative. _
Exactly. Not sure why folks are having such a hard time with this concept. Everything you hear now is just an educated guess--no more, no less. Geno was never a first rounder. If Teddy goes in round 2 or 3, HE was never a first rounder. I just guessed wrong about him. _
Okay how do I go about showing you what teams graded Geno as in September/October/November of 2012 compared to February/ March/April of 2013? All we have is his play in college and for a time period he was considered a number 1 pick and the best QB in the draft.
Here's one I can prove..the Cowboys. http://basketfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-Shot-2013-05-31-at-8.46.49-AM.png
BY WHOM?!? LOL, go get your magazine articles and show me all the proof you have--because some guy blogging said it? Because McShay and Kiper said it? Bcecause ESPN and the sports news shows repeated it? Oh I get it, I forgot, you're one of those fans that thinks we got the number 1 pick at 39. And anyone who says a critical word, you cry about it. _
LOL, so the Cowboys had Geno at 37 and they actually had Barkley--who sucks, and Ryan Nassib (bless his heart for what he did for my Orangemen, but who is equally as bad) ahead of him? Wait, what about Geno being a first rounder? What about him being the best QB in last years draft? What about Kiper and McShay? To be fair, they don't even have Manuel on their board. Too funny what some of you guys want to believe. _
