Where we disagree is that IMO it is debatable whether he can or can't play outside early. From what I have seen from both his film & combine workouts, there is nothing stopping him from being a day 1 starter on the outside. That said, let's assume for argument's sake that your theory is correct & he needs a year of technique refinement to handle outside press coverage. First of all, who is to say that Beckham/Lee or any other WR in this class won't have similar setbacks early? It can't just be about height. Especially considering Cooks/Lee/Beckham are all within 3 inches of each other. So what would the Jets do differently w/ Lee/Beckham if they too struggle w/ outside press? Well Lee might be useful in a wildcat type role as he did do some work out of the backfield at USC. Beckham would likely return punts/Kicks.Otherwise, Both would likely be designated to the same slot role you fear for Cooks early. The interesting thing about Cooks: I think he could be used in the wildcat AND be a KR/PR if he can't start early. The wildcat is iffy but his lack of height might give him an advantage hiding behind the large OL in front of him..as would his initial quickness/ball carrying ability. I'm not sure the other 2 can boast that.Lee doesn't have the initial burst to be a returner while Beckham doesn't have the experience or build to handle the backfield.So if these young WRs can't start early like you've suggested..and we're focusing in on their alternative roles early..who's gonna give the team the most bang for their buck? Something to consider.
Definitely valid points but although Beckham is just over an inch taller than Cooks, Beckham has a much stronger build. Beckham has the strength to beat press coverage; CB's will not be able to reroute Beckham nearly as well as they would be able to reroute Cooks. Furthermore, Beckham has the strength to catch balls on comeback routes and take hits from NFL level CBs. If Cooks didn't get enough separation on to catch a ball clean and make a move, he would often drop the ball as a result of the corner coming up to make a hit. Beckham also has longer arms, much bigger hands, and 2 inches better vertical, so he has the ability to win jump balls even vs good CB's. Cooks has the body control to re-adjust to throws from awkward angles, which is a good trait but he would win maybe an 8th of the jump balls Beckham would. Beckham has very strong hands, and can control a CB pretty well in a block when he gets his hands on him. Cooks is more or less a non-factor as a blocker. Cooks is highly elusive, but if a defensive player gets a hand on him he is probably going down. Beckham regularly runs through tackles, and happens to have excellent elusiveness as well. Brandin Cooks does a lot well, but I think people are really excited about his speed. All you need to see is the separation Beckham gets vs SEC CB's on his crisp routes to know he is more ready to make an impact on the outside than Cooks. I love how Beckham shields the ball with his long arms and strong hands even on contested receptions, and even though he is only about an inch taller than Cooks he has a significantly better catch radius. Beckham can return kicks, punts, and successfully run an end around and make a big play, which is one part of a successful wildcat team. Vick, CJ, and Beckham could make a scary wildcat package.
First off we'll have to agree to disagree that is age isn't a concern. I think it is, especially since it may take him 1-2 years to develop, and if he does have work ethic issues, then he might never develop or it might take even longer. Even with that, I'm not really giving him that grade (6th-7th round). I understand why many rate him as a 2nd round pick, but I don't see him as a top 40 prospect, and I would never take a WR that high that hadn't proven to have not only outstanding athleticism and speed, but hands, route running ability, work ethic and character. I wouldn't take him before the 6th or 7th round for a combination of reasons: lack of experience, age, sloppy route running, questionable focus and work ethic. Also, I wouldn't take him before then because I hope the Jets get a WR either in round 1 or 2, and there's no way I'd take him over Cooks, Beckham, Lee, Adams, Mathews, Robinson, or maybe even Moncrief. If the Jets get a WR early, then they don't need another until late, and I'd rather they address other needs if they match with bpa. In addition, I think there's a good chance that even if he does develop, with his size he may wind up a TE rather than a WR. I just flat out don't like him much at all. If it came down to the Jets either getting him early or no WR at all in the draft, I think there's a good chance I'd opt for no WR in this draft. I like him that little.
I don't think Lee is going to have a lot of trouble with press coverage. He has tremendous burst acceleration and he can put a CB in a deep deficit very quickly if he misses the chuck at the line.
You're a big character guy..I can respect that. I don't totally agree w/ that philosophy but I understand it & can move on. I'm not really sure if I'd consider Benjamin a character risk.From what I've read his issues have been more about asserting himself & gathering his confidence than so being lazy or a bad seed. Either way we'll agree to disagree.
Everything I've seen in terms of evaluating Lee I've been impressed with. I like his fluid movement, route running, explosion,ball carrying ability & versatility. For all the talk about his lukewarm 40 time..I thought he looked very smooth while running that ho-hum time. I find watching the stride/movement much more beneficial than so the stop watch when it comes to the 40.Is there wasted motion?Anything appear awkward?Does it take a few steps to reach full throttle? Afterward if the time is a big surprise one way or the other..than it's just a trigger to re-watch the film. 4.56 or whatever he ran really wasn't bad.And again...really fluid & smooth. That said..I can't ignore these countermeasures against him. Even Charlie Casserly whose opinion I really respect is lukewarm on the kid.What are others seeing that I'm not? He's another body catcher. But just like I mentioned w/ Benjamin..this can be worked on & managed. I don't always buy into mass production..but you can't deny the eye popping numbers despite his team being in complete disarray & abnormally short on surrounding talent. All while looking smooth as silk, getting behind defenses w/ ease despite defenders being literally draped all over him. As for the injury concerns...it didn't exactly stop him from playing or producing. Let the doctors be the judge of that. If they give the green light of no residual concerns...then there are no residual concerns. So why are so many criticizing this guy? It could be that offensive skill players are always feverishly debated based on preference as well as overexposure. There's also the fact that he's been in the "draft limelight" since the end of his Sophomore year which can definitely cause some negative vibes. Now I've been wrong before(Trent Richardson,Rashaun Woods,Darren Mcfadden) but I've also been right on some highly criticized high profile prospects(Chris Johnson,Lesean Mccoy,Pearcy Harvin). At this point I'm just gonna trust me gut & trust my eyes. Sign me up for Marquise Lee should he best available at #18.
Fair or unfair, his fault or not, Lee's 2013 was a disappointment, compared to his stellar performance in 2012. Some people are going to be critical of Lee. I even have had some slight concerns, but not enough to dismiss him, just temper when he should be selected. One thing for certain, if Lee declared last year, he would've been a top 5 pick. What I really like about Lee's game is catching the ball at full speed and running away from the defense, especially on crossing routes, IMO, he does this better than Beckham and Cooks. Cooks is great in the short game, creating mismatches with his speed and quick feet. Beckham is great high pointing the ball and using the sideline to his advantage. Of the three (Cooks, Beckham and Lee) wide outs I believe Lee has the highest ceiling, but may not be the best fit in Marty's offense, compared to Cooks. The Three wideouts are so close in value, it just depends who will be available and how they fit their new team. I will not be disappointed with any of the three players and I believe at least 2 will be available at #18. I think Lee's stock is going to increase in the next 2 weeks. Often amateur draft fans get paralysis by analysis evaluating players. IMO, it isn't worth arguing over these 3 wide outs and ruling out one completely. All 3 have potential to be outstanding NFL players, the team that drafts them will more than likely dictate their success....QB play...something Lee is too familiar with in 2013.
Hey I'm just curious ... A lot of you claim to be analyzing "film" ... When discussing football "film" the accurate description of that would mean you have coaches tape which is birds eye or behind center where you see the whole field for the duration of the play. If some of yiu guys are confusing highlight reels for films ... I understand ... But I just want to point out that there is a HUGE difference. And if u are all watching film ... Please tell where it is available on these athletes bc I would like to see it myself. Usually scouts request and are given the film. Nfl.com has a service that u can pay for and get the coaches film for every game ... But to my knowledge that is not available to the public from all ncaa games unless I just don't know. ..... Thanks guys Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I think this is an example of what I was just talking about regarding "film". Can u please post a link to the Cooks' film ... Not his highlights or tv view .... That is not film. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
We can agree to disagree and still respect each other's opinion. That's the way I always prefer it. I didn't say that I thought Benjamin is a bad seed, but I have read more than once that his work ethic is thought to be lacking. Then there's also the report that after an NFL team representative made a special trip to see him, Benjamin blew him off and said he was too tired. Now I'll readily admit that could be a bogus report by a team that covets him and they're just trying to get him to drop. If I hadn't seen anything else in that regard, that's the direction in which I would have leaned, but since I have read a couple of other places that his work ethic is questionable (wish I could remember where I had read it, can't find the articles or links), it's not so hard to believe. A pretty fair number of players who are naturally bigger, stronger and/or faster than other players get by in college on their natural size/strength/speed and never work to get better or develop solid fundamentals. Look at Cromartie. He didn't even work in the NFL to improve his. I just think that could be the case with Benjamin, and I don't think the Jets can afford to miss on a player that high. He's just too risky imo. At any rate, I enjoyed the exchange and look forward to more on this or other topics.
This is interesting..his only visit? What do they know? Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 15m Ore. St WR Brandin Cooks visits #Jets this week, as @MMehtaNYDN said. His only visit. Like Tyler Eifert last year, there are few questions
Could mean that teams aren't as high on him as fans are ... Could be all smoke cause other teams don't want to tip their hands ... Who knows. Me personally, I have the opinion that there is top much hype on Cooks from fans. If he was that amazing as a prospect, he's be a top 10 pick a la Watkins and probably Evans. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
This. My biggest issue with him is that he (A) wasn't the #1 WR on his team, and (B) is what I consider to be an unreliable receiving option. Based on what I've watched on him, if I was QB and needed a 1st down I would not pass it to him. This is not the kind of player you take in the 1st round. Even Lee, who people have criticized his hands, was usually relied upon as the first option to throw to when USC needed it the most. Better receivers than Benjamin, including Alshon Jeffery (IMO a very similar prospect to Benjamin coming out, minus the dropsies and character concerns) and Robert Woods have fallen into the 2nd round in years with much less overall and specifically WR talent. Taking Benjamin in the 1st would be a huge misteame IMO.
They won't take him in the first round. Iam sure they are looking at him for a second round pick in case they take something else in the first.
this is not true at all... tavon austin is 5'9 and was a top 10 pick last year. kendel wright, percey harvin etc.. if the guy is explosive who cares.. there are plenty of smaller wrs...i would understand if we needed a big bodied wr..but he have decker, hill, and nelson
id be happy with cooks, lee, beckem. ebron, any of the pass rushers etc.... but WE ARE PROB GOING TO DRAFT A CORNER ANYWAY! HAHA
Excuse me? You need to look at the facts again. Cooks' production is better than Lees over their two season collegiate careers. Cooks has 226 receptions, 3,272 yards, a 14.5 YPC average, and 24 TDs. He averaged 5.6 yards per rushing attempt in 61 attempts for 340 rushing yards. Lee has 248 receptions, 3,655 yards, a 14.7 YPC average, and 29 TDs. He averaged 6.1 yards per rushing attempt in 24 attempts for 161 rushing yards. How is that Lee has proven his ability on the outside but Cooks hasn't. Cooks wasn't a slot receiver at Oregon State. Cooks' drop rate was 4.69%. Lee's was 12.31. Lee's hands are questionable. He is 3x more likely to drop a pass than Cooks.
Again, it's the characteristics that made Rice great that I'm comparing Cooks with, not actually Jerry Rice. They have a lot of the same characteristics and qualities. That doesn't mean that Cooks will become a great WR in the NFL, but it does mean his chances are good, and certainly a lot better than someone who doesn't have those qualities/characteristics.
