Man it is strange to see you quote the Big Lebowski, that movie is so loose and fun and you are so stiff and sterile
Meh. What you are really talking about is the predilection for making the flashy move. Trading up in teh draft is not an FA move. I understand where you are coming from, but I think you are overstating the case against FA in order to make a more general point. Flash may be bad, but FA has its place. IMHO.
Yeah, but it's place is not a half dozen starters being paid among the best on the team. Not ever. That's not a team, that's bunch of mercenaries gathered together to make money. If you look at who wins Super Bowls there's usually one guy with a decent contract who was a free agent. If you look at the 2009 and 2010 Jets you were talking a half dozen free agents starting for the team and another two or three who came over in high profile trades. Only half the starters on the team were home-grown. That just never works.
Built not bought! The best teams in any sport have always been developed homegrown and used free agents to help bolster them with the exception of the NBA which is a cultureless sham of a sport built completely on hype and narrative. Maybe I'm just at a loss but I can't remember a real NFL contender that was built on fa talent that ever sustained success, it was always homegrown talent The only teams I can think of are Denver and New Orleans because they lucked into a franchise qb which is very rare
to the contrary, you make an assumption that Smith started because Sanchez got injured...No one has said that other than Sanchez and a few writers. If Sanchez had won the starting spot he wouldn't have been in that late in the last pre-season game. Period. Whether or not players started in their rookie season is only incomplete if you are judging the draft by it's first year results. As I stated repeatedly we won't really know how good the draft was for another 2 or 3 seasons, none the less that 5 of the draftee's all started for more than 1/2 the season, and all but one for at least 3/4 of the season does say something...they were at least as good as JAGs and therefore cost saving if nothing else. The grade on ANY draft is incomplete for at least 3 seasons after the draft, unless the draft is a total bust and everyone is off the team within a year or two or just totally busting like Gholston. Again, the draft made the team better than it was before the draft, at least in terms of depth in the long run, and that's how you build a good team long term.
The Sanchez trade up wasn't a blockbuster. What has assisted the Jets' steep decline was constantly whiffing on draft picks in early rounds (after the first). Unfortunately some of these have paled into insignificance compared to worst draft pick evah, Vernon Gholston. However, shit like Alex Van Dyke and almost all of the late nineties/early 2000's drafts, culminating in the Ducasse selection (and potentially, Hill) shouldn't get a free pass purely because they are not "Gholston". The scouting department should have been hung from the yardarm after each and every one of these picks. I'm hoping that the draft class of last season, in conjunction with some scouting personnel changes should move the team forward. Unfortunately, it's hard to pass judgement this side of 2016.
Don't forget the fact that the Jets have had statistically one of the lowest draft pick counts of any team in the league for the past 4 years.
Under Tannenbaum we consistently traded our picks away. We traded up for Revis in 2007, we traded for Brett Favre in 2008, we traded up for Mark Sanchez in 2009, we traded for Braylon Edwards in 2009, we traded for Antonio Cromartie in 2010, and Tebow in 2012. It's just a fast way to build a team with no depth. When you make a few bad signings, and you have no depth, you look bad and get fired.
Plus traded up for Shonn Greene, traded for Lito Sheppard, traded up for Stephen Hill, traded Vilma away for a pittance, traded up for David Harris, traded for Santonio Holmes, traded for Kevin O'Connell (yeah), traded up for Joe McNugget, traded up for Josh Bush. Tanny deserves the Blood Eagle for what he did with this team.
It's safe to say Tanny and Bradway never saw trade ups they didn't like. That's one of the primary reasons the Jets are a .500 team over the last decade. Nobody is smart enough to trade up consistently and come out ahead. Somebody was apparently worried they weren't smart enough to just stay in place and make their picks and come out ahead We're in a better place at this point. We're functioning like a normal NFL franchise.
Exactly---we do not want to be Washington or Dallas. And we certainly do not want to be Oakland. Now if we can just not draft like Cleveland.........
[quote="Big Blocker, post: 2979444, member: 9238] For Exhibit A we need go no further than the draft day move of trading up to pick Mark Sanchez. Quite obviously this was not a FA move, and yet was the move that arguably hindered the team nore than anything else in the last several years. Quite simply if the Jets had gotten anywhere near the value of that fifth pick out of Sanchez, they likely would have gotten over the hump. The Jets would at a minimum have been competitive in the years we instead saw them decline. [/quote] Yep. Interestingly, Tanny actually made a good trade for the fifth pick. Just didnt do it for a good fifth pick.
Yep. Interestingly, Tanny actually made a good trade for the fifth pick. Just didnt do it for a good fifth pick.[/quote] Not saying Sanchez was worth that pick but getting over a bump sounds like they just hit a wall with no production from him instead of getting within a game of the SB twice, something that even parcels was only ably to do once with this team. It's not like the guy never did anything with the Jets. But since I am close to turning this conversation into another Sanchez battle I'll just finish this post by saying that Tannenbaum is a dummy
Again, if Mark Sanchez had been a decent Qb, those teams probably would have worked. It was a bad draft move that hurt much more than any other factor, including the FA emphasis.
Playing Sanchez against the Giants at that point of the game was a stupid move on Ryan's part which was widely recognized as an effort to win a pre-season game for bragging rights. But all reports had Sanchez ahead of Smith in the Qb competition at that point.
Not saying Sanchez was worth that pick but getting over a bump sounds like they just hit a wall with no production from him instead of getting within a game of the SB twice, something that even parcels was only ably to do once with this team. It's not like the guy never did anything with the Jets. But since I am close to turning this conversation into another Sanchez battle I'll just finish this post by saying that Tannenbaum is a dummy[/quote] Where did I say they got NO production from Sanchez??? I said if they had an average NFL QB in those two years, which Sanchez was not, they might well have gotten to the SB in one both years.
Hiring a bunch of veteran free agents, trading for a few more and then drafting a QB to go with them obviously doesn't work. The timing is off because by the time the QB is ready to go the vets will have mostly retired. Look at who the Jets hired from 2007 to 2011 and where they are now: 2007 - Thomas Jones (retired) 2008 - Alan Faneca (retired), Kris Jenkins (retired), Damien Woody (retired), Tony Richardson (retired), Calvin Pace (active) 2009 - Bart Scott (retired), Marques Douglas (retired), Braylon Edwards (retired), Jim Leonhard (active) 2010 - LaDainian Tomlinson (retired), Antonio Cromartie (active), Santonio Holmes (active) 2011 - Plaxico Burress (retired), Anthony Mason (retired) You have to build a team around a young QB, not try to shoehorn him in with a crowd that will be gone before he is mature and ready to go. You have to draft the guys who will support him in the same time frame you take him in and then you have to keep piling on until it's going to be hard for him to fail. It's very helpful if you have a few guys who are established top-notch players before the QB arrives but still young enough to play with him for at least 5 years, like Marvin Harrison was for Peyton Manning.
I didn't say you say that, and you also didn't say in that quote that if they had average QB play, you said that if they got anywhere near the value of the 5th overall pick which last I checked was above average value so maybe you should check what you said before trying to blast me with multiple question marks lol
