I mean I don't totally disagree with you, but you're cherry picking a player who is a clear hall of famer. If there is a player the Jets value highly that falls to 18, all I'm saying is there were probably picks that even the Jets would have taken over them in the top 10 or so that don't end up panning out, so you wouldn't really say it was a miss by the team that drafted that player vs the player that dropped to 18. Only a couple teams have to incorrectly place a higher value on another player for a player to drop a few spots, and the truth is if it happens I'm sure it will be a player that none of us or the draft nicks in the media considered a top 20 pick, as was the case with Sheldon. You never know if the Steelers had a higher pick back in 2003 they would have still drafted Troy, I mean you can't assume they had any idea he was going to become what he did, they may have just though he happened to be a better prospect than anyone taken after him.
To address the last paragraph ... We are talking specifically about cornerback here. I and others have stated that Dennard is worthy of being the Jets 1st round pick. Others say no bc we have already drafted there in the 1st round recently. I'm confused by your post bc I'm assuming based on what you read that you are in the camp that does not want the jets to draft a 1st rd cornerback under any circumstance. But you say that they would be making a huge mistake to abandon need and go BPA. I'm confused because it's common knowledge that CB is a definite need. So if the BPA happens to be a player at a position of high need .... You gotta be all over that, no? So I don't quote understand your point there :-/ I mean I know a few of you keep saying that CB is not a high need but all the experts, Mocks, and even the Jets pre draft visit list seem to scream out loud that CB is a position that they very strongly covet in this draft. They are meeting with every single first round CB talent. You only get 30 pre draft visits .... That's not all smoke. They are VERY interested in selecting a CB in the first round, and in my opinion will do so if it's their BPA. Look none of us will be privvy to their board so it's total speculation. Not one single one of us geniuses knew Bruce Irvin was their guy before Seattle swiped him 2 years ago and none of us saw Sheldon Rich coming either. And he was high on numerous boards it later came out. Hey Jets could bypass Dennard if Dee Ford is their BPA (my 2nd favorite player in this draft for Jets), or Shazier, or Lewan. Would anyone be shocked if they pick Jace Amaro at 18? I sure wouldn't bc I have NO CLUE what their board will look like but they might place an enormously unexpected high value on a guy lime Amaro. Knowing that this same scouting dept loved Revis and I see so many similar traits/characteristics I'm just going to take a stab in the dark and project that they are going goo goo ga ga over Dennard. But they will take Dennard. So many ppl want the "sexy" (I hate using that word in this context) pick of a WR and think this is where the Jets will go because need is high there. I don't think so Jets will go BPA regardless of position. Shel Rich pick last year proved it. And I love that, even as an Idzik critic on other items. WRs are have an enormously high bust rate in first few rounds .... What is the obsession???? Root for Stephen Hill and Kerley to emerge. If they do in fact take a WR then I will be comfortable that it was truly their BPA not bc they were thirsty for any WR. Sorry but Cooks and Beckham are not top 25 talents in this draft hate to be a downer. But that's just my opinion. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I think your confusion stems from assuming that I was against drafting Dennard, my only point was really about how teams do incorporate need into their draft boards so BPA most times has need factored in. I'm not against drafting Dennard at 18, although he better be the real thing because we will have spent 4 first round picks on corners in the past 8 years. I would personally prefer a WR in round 1 but I am not in their war room and don't have access to players and film the way they do, so I will defer to Idzik and Co.
In the end I am in total agreement with your conclusion. However I am Switzerland when it comes to position preference. I have none. I am just somewhat happy that the BPA approach will assure we will not miss out on a great player just because we are stubbornly set on drafting one specific position. And similar to your stance. If the Jets draft say Cooks, ahead of Dennard, which I doubt would happen, but if so, I'm not going to bitch very much .... Cooks better be the real deal. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
As badly as we need a CB drafting one in round 1 again would be a huge waste with all the offensive talent available.You can't draft defense every single year in round 1,that would be 5 out of 6 drafts where we went defense in the first round under Rex Ryan and our offense has suffered because of it.There needs to be some balance,Mark Sanchez was the only player on offense drafted in the first round so far,its kinda sad really
The only thing I disagree on is that Odell Beckham Jr. is worth the 18th pick, but I'm aware that is merely an amateur's take on the film and measurables. Revis has better athleticism than Dennard, although I don't think that means Dennard isn't worthy of the top 14 pick, more that we got immense value when we got Revis at the 14th overall. Revis ran a 4.38, had a 38 inch vert, and measure 6' 204 lbs. Dennard measured 5'11", 199 lbs, and ran a 5.51. He didn't do the vert. The only reason Revis fell to 14 was because of concerns over the lack of competition of him at Pitt.
Revis was actually 5'11 at the combine and his pro day. He chose not to run at the combine and in the pro day did post a 4.38 although everyone knows the pro day 40 times are a bit fast. He was also timed at 4.5. I dont think anyone can consider Revis a burner in fact getting burnt by Ted Ginn on go routes comes to mind. Dennard ran a 4.5 I think Revis also ran a 4.5 but clocked a favorable 4.3 as well. I think we are splitting hairs here, it I do think they compare very similarly as prospects going into the draft. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
But looking at that 2007 draft. .... 6 wrs taken in first round. Calvin Johnson, one giant under achiever (Bowe) and 4 total busts!! This is the story just about every year. Remember when Jets fans wanted some bum named Reggie Williams in 04?? I don't see the can't miss offensive talent others are suggesting. It just doesnt happen Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I don't think there is such a thing as can't miss talent. In my opinion there are some very talented receivers in this draft with good heads on their shoulders who are worth first round picks. From what I can tell Beckham Jr and Cooks come to mind. I 100% agree with you on I have no preference as to who the Jets pick, and would like BPA picks, but I do have a few favorites as to which players seem like good fits. Dennard, Clinton-Dix, and Beckham are 3 that are probably in our range that I like the best.
I like Beckham better than Cooks. Cooks I don't like at all and all of you can take me to task later if I'm wrong. Too many casual fans love him and that is a huge red flag for a mid-late first round guy lol. All of us amateurs can't be geniuses lol. I saw it with Reggie Williams and then every year after there are fan favorite WRs ... They are almost always colossol busts. Don't ask me why. Anyway I don't even think Cooks is a first round talent. I'm not seeing it. I also think that Dennard will be an immense upgrade over Walls, Wilson, and Patterson and might even be an upgrade over Milliner Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Not if Milliner plays like he did at the end of last season. Revis was decent but he progressed quite a bit through his rookie year, and he wasn't the Revis we remember until his third season in 2009. I see pretty bright things for Milliner.
When you post shit you need to own it, man. You googled as far as wikipedia !!!!!! RALEBIRD: A bunch of people showed you were wrong and instead of buying your own shit you're making up all kinds of lame excuses. It's not a big deal to be wrong. You look foolish and damage your credibility by not putting up the "my bad." This is an email I recd from Brian Costello. I also emailed other sport Writers and announcer and to date have not recd an answer. Question; Was Idzick ever a pro scout in the NFL. If so what team and time period. > > Can't find anything saying he was. > > Thank U Kindly His Response; To Me Today at 11:09 AM He was not. He only did a little bit of college scouting his final year with the Seahawk. I also provide articles from Sports Illustrated. John Idzicks profile from the Seahawks. And here are two more: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8860314/new-york-jets-gm-john-idzik-football-man-core http://bighitsports.wordpress.com/2013/05/15/new-jets-gm-john-idziks-resume/ Not an attempt to humiliate or downgrade any posters ability like you guys tried doing to me. The key to my points was he was never a Pro scout in the NFL. He may have gone on scouting trips but not as a pro scout. I think I deserve at least an apology but if U guys don't want to. It's OK. Many of the remarks made by you guys were pretty shitty. Maybe U guys can take the time to contact other writers and get some response. Can this please be the end of this tit for tat..
Please read my response to the other posters. Just this response:Bart Hubbuch NY Post Nothing in his history indicates he was a professional scout. He did however help out on scouting trips with the Seahawks. Thank U
Hey Fla Jet .... I am with you .... But don't get too caught up. It's just a board. Ppl will believe what they want to believe. It's hard to change minds on here but I enjoy reading all the views. It can get frustrating making your point over and over again. Trust me there is no winning and losing on a message board (esp a Jets message board). You sound too worked up over this :-( As for the topic, no John Idzik was never a pro scout and had very limited experience. When I entered into this debate with ppl they threw job descriptions and titles in my face that were completely inconclusive. Knowing how resumes and networking works in my own career ... I know very well how it works and how to read btwn the lines. So a couple ppl he previously worked with/for might have thrown him a bone and spiced up his work exp to make him more spicy for a GM job. This happens all the time, for those that doesn't think it does, they must not work in those kinds of professions, but I review resumes in my job ... And I know how it is. The best sources are out there. Idzik is just not a scout. He's no more of a personnel evaluator than Tanny was. That doesn't mean he won't or can't be successful. He has to lean on the right ppl and use his judgement. And he definitely can become more seasoned in this area as time goes on. But no he is NOT a scout and he did not "evaluate" Sheldon Richardson any more so than Tanny evaluated Revis back in be day. He's a cap guy. Clear as day. Leave the ppl with their opinions not worth the battle. It's stupid to argue Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Writers? Because when you want to find out about someones work history going to 3 of their old bosses to find out what their jobs and strengths are would make absolutely no sense, right. It ended a couple of days back but it looks like you cranked it back up.
So I made a Twitter a few minutes ago literally just to tweet Brian Costello. If he really told you that, he's changing his tune. <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/MaximusD1636">@MaximusD1636</a> he scouted with Tampa</p>— Brian Costello (@BrianCoz) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/statuses/453705761009717248">April 9, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I can understand if it was "oh yes it did some scouting", maybe, but when it is "he knows talent. He has a unique eye for evaluating players" and other quotes from 2 other GMs then nope. If you don't want to believe you can keep your blinders on but don't expect most to take you seriously if you disregard things that are right in front of you.
Yes I really wanted it to end but not on the note you guys trying to make me look like a fool If what I posted doesn't do it for you than nothing will. I never questioned his ability to evaluate and in fact I praised him for a very savvy football man. All I wanted to note was that he was never a pro scout. I think I pretty much proved that.
