And as I finish sending my last post just saw that Dennard will be one of the 30 prospects the Jets will be meeting with pre draft. Loving it. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
That line of thinking is wrong. Sorry but it just makes no sense. Throw it out the window. Kyle Wilson didn't quite work out as hoped. CB is a need and if a guy like Dennard is their BPA and available, do you think for a second that they would bypass him and reach further down? A. Not Idziks style. B. They need a CB. So think about and answer that question HONESTLY before saying that you don't see them drafting a CB because they have done so recently Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Not a fact. All of you are prematurley throwing Stephen Hill to the curb. The organization is giving him another opportunity this year. And also BPA BPA BPA BPA. What's so hard to understand? Idzik will draft BPA. If Dennard is higher on their board then cooks, lee, Beckham, etc ... Which I strongly suspect he would be .... They ain't reaching DOWN THEIR BOARD to avoid taking the BPA. Not his philosophy at all. FACT. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I agree if Dennard is there at 18 we should def think about taking him I just don't see it happening. .....I want cooks but that's just me opinion
I know Stephen Hill has dropped a buncha balls but I see Victor Cruz dropping passes almost every week as well. Not excusing it at all, just saying he needs work. I saw lots of improvements with Hill the first few weeks last year and his head injury really knocked him off track. He also battled a nagging keg injury, which he also had during his rookie year. This is the frustrating part about message boards, you have to keep repeating your points on different threads to diff ppl to make your point. But here goes .... Stephen Hill was drafted as a "project". Everyone knew it: scouts, analysts, fans, I'm sure the Jets did too. He came from a run-option offense and needed lots of polish. He was also the youngest kid on the team and is just ABOUT TO turn 23 years old!! The age of most rookies. Give the kid a break. WR is NOT a position where rookies typically put up huge numbers anyway. WR is one of the hardest positions to predict NFL success and 1st and 2nd round WRs have an enormous bust rate. This year is being billed as the best WR class since 2008 which also produced almost nothing when it was all said and done. Back to Hill .... Look I do NOT have a strong opinion that he will make it. But I do have a strong opinion that the Jets are going to give him one more GOOD opportunity to show up. He is largely just dismissed on this board, but he has shown flashes of top tier natural talent, and if he grasps route running and learns to avoid unnecessary punishment, I still see lots of potential. We'll see if it goes anywhere, but I would NOT be surprised if he and Decker were the week 1 starters. I don't think the Jets are as desperate for a WR in the first round as some of you think. In fact, bc I am quite certain Hill will get another chance to start and produce I am even more sure that the Jets would prefer to draft a WR in rounds 2-4 as the back up plan for Hill if he fails again in this pivotal 3rd year. Now how does that relate to CB? Again .... Dennard is someone I strongly suspect will be higher in their board than Cooks, Beckham, Lee. In fact I would be willing to bet that in a scenerio where all those guys are available, Dennard would be the pick ($50) or someone else at another position. I just don't consider Cooks, Beckham Jr, or Lee to be THAT high on most team's overall board. And the Jets are now a BPA philosophy team. There is a good chance this is all moot. It was me and about 2-3 others on here that were the initial ppl to start talking up Dennard. I said 3 weeks ago that Dennard was better than Gilbert ... Back then across all publications and websites Gilbert was the 1st cb off the board. Well guess what, I called it and it's starting to happen .... A lot of ppl are picking Dennard over Gilbert in mocks, rankings, etc. Dennard is the best CB in this draft, he will very likely be a top 10-12 pick if he falls to 14 we should trade up if he falls to 18 we should all be jumping for joy. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I don't think it's a fact that they are going WR in round one, but the need for another starting wideout has to factor heavily into how they are building their board. BPA goes by how they rate players based on need and player value, not just on what player is best at their position disregarding how they fit the Jets' system and what players already exist on the roster. Occasionally you will have a player whose skill level is so high that his value trumps the existing players on the roster (i.e. Sheldon Richardson) but unless players they love fall really far I don't see that happening at 18 unless the Jets scouts are trash.
If the Jets don't draft a 1st round WR (I am in the minority here ... I dont think they will unless Evans falls) ... Stephen Hill is your starting WR2. Book it. So are you saying that if the Jets love a player that falls really far (Dennard, Barr, etc) and they draft that guy, then the scouts are trash? I'm sorry, that's what I understand maybe I dont follow .... Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Maybe I should have said could be trash. I'm saying that when a player is simply so good at his position that a team abandons the need factor on their board (part of how they build their draft board) that either it happens in the very early rounds most times, if the Jets, say, took a DT at 18 he would have to have an enormous skillset to make them ignore the fact that DT is far from a need to take him. If a guy like that fell to 18 that means 17 team passed on his and the odds that all 17 of those teams missed something and the Jets' scouting department as it stands right now (having been a working unit for their first year, Bradway or not) is so well connected are pretty bad odds. Hence, the odds are the scouts did a trash job and convinced the GM to draft a player whose value doesn't factor correctly. I could probably word this better, but I've been reading technical documents for the past 6 hours and my brain is oatmeal right now.
After watching Dennards highlights im on board of hes there.....he can lay some hits on players to gotta love that
First of all 17 teams wouldn't have "missed" on a player by any means. Some may have had him ranked high but there was a clear pick for them, like Clowney, Mack, Watkins, Evans, one of the tackles, one of the QB's... Depending on what player it is maybe only 3 teams or so missed on him. Aside from that, it's not even unrealistic that a few teams missed what a guy had to offer. There were 5 defensive players picked ahead of Richardson, yet he became DROY. I'm not saying all is said and done he will be the best defensive player out of the draft, but at least the raiders could have picked him over DJ Hayden.
I see what you're saying makes some sense although sometimes, yes ... All those teams miss. 14 teams passed on Revis. 11 teams passed on Sheldon. How many passed on Randy Moss? Aaron Rodgers? Mo Wilk? So if a player drops I don't have the opinion that everyone else knows something Bradway and company don't know. Maybe it's those teams that don't place the appropriate value ... I guess it could go either way that's why the draft is a crapshoot I think we can all agree on that lol. Although I think it is safe to say that generally, some positions are more of a crap shoot than others in the early rounds. Wide receivers, in general, have big bust rates. You just have to hope your team's scouting dept strikes gold at the right time. Every team, no matter how good at drafting will have 1st and 2nd round busts over time. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
As a prospect (please digest those words) .... Dennard is the closest thing to Revis since Revis and that includes previous top CB picks like Haden, Peterson, Milliner, etc, etc. His style of play just screams Revis, ad does his skillset, and perceived strengths and weaknesses going into draft. Dennard should be a top 10 pick I'd be surprised if he fell to the mid teens but so did Revis. If you doubt the Revis-Dennard comparison (again I'm comparing then as prospects) go back and look at Revis' Pitt highlights compared to Dennard's. Read the scouting reports. Just watch them. They are clones coming into the draft. For me .... That's enough to say Dennard os my favorite player for the Jets in this draft and I hope they target him, and if he's available at 14 nyj should skip Pitt if they can move up the 4 spots for a 4th and 6th. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I am willing to bet that he comes nowhere close to where Revis is in terms of potential... I can pretty much guarantee it..
That's what people said before we drafted Sheldon, except that made it 3 DT in the last 3 years. Just saying.
Remember I am saying he compares very favorably tp Revis as a PROSPECT. There are too many factors and I am not arrogant enough ... Or foolish enough .... To project Dennard to be as great as Revis. Im just saying as a prospect he is Revis-like. More so than any other cb since Revis came out. And for me that's a lot more than enough to roll the dice on him. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I think the Rams are at 13 are a lot more likely to trade back, it depends on if the guys they are targeting are still available. The Bears at 14 probably aren't going to want to trade back behind the Cowboys since they are probably both targeting DT Aaron Donald. If the Cowboys hop up to 13 to bypass the Bears and get Donald, the Bears at 14 might trade back with us though. Those are my thoughts anyway. But I was definitely one who wanted Dennard from quite a while ago, after I watched the film on him it was clear he was the better CB, especially for a man to man scheme.
I guess it's what you define as a "miss". I'm talking years down the road here. Take a look at the '03 draft. Troy Polamalu went to the Steelers with the 16th pick. Aside from the Texans and maybe the Ravens, don't you think the 0ther 13 teams would like a do-over on that one? That's what I call a miss, when that kind of talent falls because a team's scouting department overvalues their need at certain positions on their draft board and doesn't recognize a talent like that, especially in the mid rounds. You can expect teams picking early, especially the ones that routinely select players in the top 10 of the draft, to miss a guy like that because the odds are their scout are trash and have been for years, otherwise sheer talent alone would have kept them out of the bottom third of the standings. But for mid-round teams to let a guy like that drop past them is clearly a miss to me regardless of their needs. As far as Richardson goes, I think the Jets (and Idzik) did an insane job of scouting Richardson and determining that his value trumped their lack of a need at DT when balanced on their draft board. As I said before, the teams (like the Raiders) that have a penchant for drafting in the early third of the draft are odds-on- favorites to have the shittier scouting departments in the league, so you can expect those teams to screw the pooch. I know players with huge ceilings can sneak by teams that are balancing factors on their boards in different areas but that doesn't mean those scouts and GMs shouldn't be held accountable for those misses. Trash was probably too strong a word, I'll admit that. And the Jets' scouts are more likely to be ahead of most scouting depts in that respect, since (HPG mentioned this) they nailed it with Revis and Wilkerson when their number came up, but they most likely had those positions factored with need in mind on their draft boards. And that brings me full circle to the point I was making in my original post to HPG, that need does factor in to what a team determines in BPA. Unless a player with a talent/skill level drops like a stone to 18 (a la Polamalu), the Jets would be making a huge mistake to abandon need as a factor on their board for BPA when selecting in the first round.
