You have embarrassed yourself for these reasons. Yesterday we had a discussion in which I stated you are ignoring valid points and just repeating the same thing, and you stated I was a homer. When I said that I was going to gather the posts to prove you both ignore my valid points and prove I am not a homer, you effectively said bring it. So I did, and now you are too scared to read them because you know I'm right. Or, you have read them and can't respond to them, because I'm right.
Oh absolutely. Milliner would have definitely been taken before the second round. I have no doubt in my mind about that. What I'm saying is, because Revis was gone and Milliner was on our board, it pushed him up to a higher choice because there was a glaring hole at corner. Now, if Revis was still there, Milliner would have still been on that board but would not have been pushed up as high as we took him. In essence, we would have probably never gotten him. Idzik is drafting BPA, but he also looks at the best players available and determines who is a priority based on needs. There is a mixture of both but more towards bpa. If there is a glaring need at receiver and a receiver is number two on our board, you are more geared to go for that said receiver, only because of a need. I get what you are saying though, drafting is about needs too. It really is
Why would I be afraid of you or anyone else here? Get over yourself you arrogant little jerk. I said why I did not read your Jet message board version of War and Peace. You said Milliner was a BPA pick without recognizing it was a pick to fill the hole Revis's departure left. You also failed to identify a single substantive point from yesterday's discussion that I ignored. I said you preferred homeristic discussion after you said I was posting from a castle of negativity, without having said what was wrong with my posts in substance. Before that point I had not said a single thing about you being a homer. I even said anyone who had nothing more than such a comment as yours to answer my substantive points must be a homer. Which is true, but I did not say that until your castle comment. And I never said bring it. Liar. I said you can't win this game. Because you can't.
Look, let's not get lost in semantics. We well might not agree about the weighting of bpa, but we both agree that choices are, as they should be, a mix of need and bpa.
Agree. I said that. There is not a GM in this world that just goes in taking best player without accounting for a need.
Talent evaluators ranked Milliner as worth a top 5 or better pick. His game film from Alabama doesn't lie. He is better than any CB in this years draft, yet Gilbert is still called a top 10 pick by many professionals. Milliner was the BPA at 9, and like I said, show me who would have been BPA.
Read it, and you'll see. You can call me arrogant, but if you read my post you'll see I basically predicted the offseason back in February. The posts don't lie. The reason it's clear you live in a castle of negativity is because through research, it's possible to understand the direction of the team and why they do what they do. You choose not to do the research and whine and complain.
Do you know what putting your head in the sand is? It's when you refuse to acknowledge a truth in front of you because you cannot handle it for whatever reason. Your reason is that you don't want to be wrong.
This is ridiculous. If he was so clearly a top five pick, how come he fell to 9? Your insistence on calling his pick BPA ignores, as Falco for example has acknowledged, that need was a significant factor in the pick. The Jets quite simply would have been idiots to use the 9th pick in the draft on a cornerback if Revis and Cromartie were still on the team. TO answer my question, Milliner most likely fell to 9 because none of the teams above the Jets NEEDED a starting cb, had other greater needs, maybe did not rate him that high, or some combination thereof. It is one thing to call BPA a factor in a pick. It is another to speak only of BPA as the reason a player was picked.
When BPA meets need it is as easy a draft pick as they come. Milner was definitely the BPA which happened to fill a need. I doubt the FO struggled much making that pick once Austin went off board.
Doubtful.. Look at the level of competition Milliner played week in and week out... Big Ten sucks monkey dick.
bpa and need arent mutually exclusive it was already explained that milliner fell because a couple of teams traded up to target players, pushing him down the board ... top prospects slide every year due to teams reaching to address needs. i dont see how this is news to you and it would have absolutely made sense to draft milliner with revis and cro still on the team ... revis was set to be an ufa in 2014 with no franchise tag option and cro had an inflated 2014 cap number that made him a likely candidate to be released you clearly have a myopic view on how to construct a team
You're ignoring all of the rest of my posts, but I suppose I will go through this with you again. The draft is a very fluid thing, and value is always changing. If you watch Milliner's film from Alabama you'll see he consistently dominated WR's and has a high football IQ, without getting into too many of the technical details of his coverage ability. He has excellent ball skills as well. If every team drafted BPA, he would have gone in the top 5 at least. Teams instead reach for talent in various ways, because some have stronger need. Idzik does not draft for need so much as you're saying. I bet you were one of the people in an uproar when they pick Sheldon 4 picks later. Was defensive line a need for us? No not at all, but he improved the overall quality of the team because he was the best player available according to the Jets big board. The draft order went as follows: 1. Eric Fisher, OT (KC) 2. Luke Joeckel, OT (JAC) 3. Dion Jordan, DE (MIA) So far these three were the undisputed best talents in the draft, even though it may not seem that way based on Jordan's impact. That has everything to do with how screwed up the Miami team was last year. 4. Lane Johnson, OT (PHI) Chip Kelly had a couple options, but the athletic ability Johnson has gave Kelly the ability to run those unusual plays with the OT's spread out like WR's. Johnson is a rare athletic talent at his size, and we will see more of his ability soon. 5. Ezekial Ansah, DE (DET) Best pass rusher in the draft, all experts considered him in the top 5 or 6 players. 6. Barkevious Mingo, OLB (CLE) Cleveland reached (just a little) for the best pass rusher left by a very significant margin, because that was a big need for them and they already had #1 CB in Joe Haden. 7. Jonathan Cooper, OG (ARI) Arizona needed line help like no one else in the league, if you recall. The top 3 tackles were gone, and the Cardinals already had their #1 CB in Patrick Peterson. With an older Carson Palmer behind center, Cooper was the obvious pick. 8. Tavon Austin, WR (STL) The Rams reach here and trade up to get the best offensive weapon in the draft by leaps and bounds. If they didn't get Austin, the next offensive weapon didn't go until 27, a huge reach for them at 12. They decided to trade up to get Austin, and did so right in front of us because there were rumors we liked Austin. 9. Dee Milliner, CB (NYJ) Here the Jets decide to select Milliner, because he is the best talent available. Don't forget we had a huge need at OG (Winters ends up starting don't forget) and Chance Warmack is sitting right there. We didn't have a huge need at CB, because Cro just proved that he could play #1 CB for us when Revis went down for the whole year. So when you look at it, OG was a much bigger need than CB, yet we drafted Milliner because he was significantly better. 10. Chance Warmack, OG (TEN) Munchack still had dreams of ground and pound with CJ2k and Shonn Greene back then, before he got fired. 11. D.J. Fluker, OT (SD) The Chargers had the second biggest need for offensive line in the league behind the Cards. 12. D.J. Hayden, CB (OAK) Another odd move that came back to bite the Raiders... sad. 13. Sheldon Richardson, DT (NYJ) No one would have said defensive line was a need for the Jets. No one. Many fans on here were in an uproar when he was selected, I bet you weren't happy. You know what was a much bigger need than DL? Safety, and Kenny Vaccaro was available. You know why we went DL? BPA. So, yeah. BPA. EDIT: I forgot Eifert (an offensive weapon) went at 21, but still way too much of a reach for the Rams at 12 especially when they just signed the TE Cook.
@MaximusD163 ... next time, just reply with the link to your previous posts that was way too much scrolling for me!
Perhaps I was relying too much on the discussion last off season, and the recognition that it made no sense to let Revis play out his last year without a new contract in 13. I could say you should have realized that, and in fact you in effect are assuming Revis would have been kept without renegotiating his contract. But since I was assuming the opposite, I would apologize except for your excessively snotty tone. I frankly do not recall the genesis of your taking a snotty tone with me. Perhaps I have forgotten, or perhaps you are merely another FO Homer here who takes it personally when others have an issue with the FO. In any event... Cro was released without an attempt to redo his contract. Most here recognize that was likely due to several factors, not solely to his 14 cap number. Is this news to you? And if you had better followed the discussion, it has been my point all along that not only are BPA and need not mutually exclusive, PBA assessments can and should be mixed with assessments of need. And of course the biggest problem with your post, despite making improper assumptions, is that if one accepts your assumptions about Revis and Cro, your argument in effect IS that Milliner would have been taken based on need even if Revis and Cro were still on the team. I disagree, but that's what you said. So what is it? Milliner was pure BPA or some mix with need? You remind me of a scene from the Big Lebowski, but then many things do.
he vast majority of you are doing here is repeating your opinions. Your worthless opinions. Which I have already addressed. I will address the point about the pass D in 12. In effect you are talking apples and oranges, since Revis was hurt in the regular season. As the team was put together the Jets were clearly intending to rely on Revis and Cro to start with Wilson the nickel. That they had to rely on doing without Revis did not mean they wanted to, obviously. And yes, Cro had a career year with Revis out, but none of that means as you assume that the Jets felt they should have been satisfied with the secondary without Revis going into 13, during the off season last year. The Jets clearly wanted Wilson as the nickel, not the starter. they still do. Plus last year the Jets' other options at Cb, like Walls, were even more unproven than this year. I also like Lankster, but don't think he's starting caliber either. Word out of Jet land is that they want to upgrade Cb from the current roster. They perceive a NEED to do so. Idzik and Ryan have said so. Perhaps they are lying, but I don't think so here. What they are saying is plausible to be sure. So, if they see a NEED this off season, essentially having Milliner replace Cro as the #1 cb, to get another starter, why would they have felt they did NOT have a need at Cb last off season? Your position makes no sense. There was also a pr aspect to this last off season. Using a first round pick to replace Revis made many feel better about Revis's departure. I count myself in that group. I think most Jet fans felt that way. As for Richardson, I also do not agree he was pure BPA. The Jets let both DeVito and Pouha go, for different reasons. Dixon I also liked, but the Jets did not want to keep him. But the big factor was the Jets did not want to keep Coples at DE. Perhaps you missed that discussion last off season. So in wanting to move Coples and in letting DeVito go, they did need a starting DE. And ftrI was not one of those who dissed the Richardson pick. I was more concerned about the Smith pick last off season since it conflicted with what I thought they should have done, which was pick up a vet Qb like Foles, Orton, even Cutler if possible, instead of a rookie with big questions. Richardson was not a pure BPA pick, either.
dont worry, i wont stick a piece up your ass til it goes click you should realize by now that revis was not going to sign an extension for anything south of $16 mill per year and woody wasnt about to offer that ... so any discussion about him still being on the roster come draft time would have to account for revis being in the final year of his deal in hindsight cro was released for a myriad of reasons, but going into the draft last year we knew he would be cut due to his cap number ... that was my point as i said, bpa and need are NOT mutually exclusive ... so yes, the pick of milliner was one of those ideal situations where the bpa aligned with a need
