I don't understand why you even have to ask that question. You can't reason out why someone would be opposed to it?
Exactly. I understand the whole overpopulation issue, but let's not pretend that's why people hunt. They hunt because they get a thrill out of it (in my opinion, a pretty sick one). If I want to shoot something, I'll go to the range or play Big Buck Hunter.
This thread has morphed into such a philosophical discussion, I'm moving it to the BS forum. It's gone beyond a "Jet's football discussion". This thread has gone beyond Michael Vick and his past issues. I agree what Michael Vick did was totally wrong and he was punished for his extremely poor choices. I have dog and can't imagine anyone torturing an animal. Vick paid his dues to society and has been a model citizen. I understand some people can not forgive and forget. I can forgive Vick's actions, especially since he did his time, I understand it's very difficult to forget and we should never forget. IMO, it's time to move on!!!
i hunt, and yes it is a thrill. it also fills my freezer with organic red meat at half the price of the grocery stores. its not sick, and there is always a bit of remorse for the fallen animal but i am not any different than the farmer who slaughtered the cattle you will be throwing on the grll this weekend, only difference is what am eating lived free and wasn't predestined to die.
Also, a few trolls have come our site to troll the Vick signing (sound familiar 2years ago)....they will and have been banned. Signing on TGG today and calling Vick...."ConVick".
To anyone who thinks Vick has "fully repaid his debt to society", do you not remember the time he cancelled an Oprah interview because he didn't want to have to face dog victims' owners? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/16/report-owners-of-vicks-dogs-flooded-oprah-sho/ He's a coward who prefers returning his life to normalcy over doing the right thing, paying his debts, and being forgiven.
Yeah, I had the wrong organization. I remember a 60 Minutes piece on him a few years ago. At least I think it was 60 Minutes. That damn Mike Francesser. He said it was the ASPCA last week and I went with it because I couldn't recall on my own which group it was.
First off, the person who posted about Vick and Hitler explained his reasoning. You've chosen to ignore his remark or to be obtuse. In addition. Vick didn't get the punishment that Hitler would have gotten: Vick got 2 years, Hitler would have been executed. So what's your point? You're saying the punishment should fit the crime. It did except Hitler committed suicide before being tried and executed. If it were possible to execute mass murderers many times over the allies likely would have, but you cannot. As for forgiveness, you are making a world of assumptions, starting with Vick's contrition. You have a cross on your avatar so you are likely a practicing Christian. If so, then you know that without honest, sincere contrition there is no forgiveness. As a Jew I have a different set of beliefs. I believe that you can only be forgiven by those whom you have wronged. To gain this forgiveness you must try to undo the harm you've caused, to work sincerely to make things better. Now I understand that Vick cannot gain absolution form dogs, but he can try to make up for what he did. I don't forgive Vick because I don't believe he has done more than the minimum necessary to help stop the sort of animal abuses that he himself had committed. Instead, he did exactly what he needed to do in order to get into the good graces of the NFL and this calls into question his sincerity among other things. Consequently, by my beliefs I am not beholden to forgive him. So where is the inconsistency? BTW, your point about flies and mosquitoes is intentionally obtuse and it seems that this is your MO in making an argument. Let me ask you something: do you know the difference between killing and murder?
I clarified mostly because, IMO, HSUS has taken advantage of Vick's visibility while requiring less of him than the Average Joe animal abuser (obviously other than the fact that his visibility makes him an ideal spokesperson for the cause). I do, however, think the ASPCA is right to criticize Vick for not doing as well as he could have/be doing.
Yeah, I would have to look at it more closely. From the piece I saw a couple years ago, I was okay with the work Vick had done. Maybe it was portrayed in such a way to make him look better than he should have been made to look. I had plenty of hate for Vick for a three or so year period. I don't quite have that anymore.
I took the definition of "killing for sport" to the extreme. If you're eating it, then I have zero issue with what you're doing quite honestly. I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of hunting, but I assumed that there were plenty who don't do what you do.
So he went to Leavenworth for 2 years, but that's not enough for folks. Because he didn't go on freaking Oprah and be part of a charade, he didn't pay his debts? He's a coward? That was a TV spectacle made to make money for Oprah, that had nothing to do with forgiveness or paying ones debts. And who wrote the rule that after you go to to prison and declare bankruptcy you ALSO need to be forgiven? I've owned dogs all my life, I have a beautiful golden named Penny after Chad. I owned and my parents bred dachshunds when I was a kid. Love dogs. I don't need him to apologize to me and I don't care that he refused to participate in a charade to placate some bullshit sad sap animal activists. _
I wouldn't want any of those guys on my football team, either. Are you saying that two wrongs make a right? That taking glee in the torture and killing of animals is more acceptable because somebody else did it too? To me, it's the TAKING PLEASURE in the torture of killing of beings that have no less capacity to feel pain than a person...maybe I'm crazy, but that bothers me. The fact that he was legally punished for what he did countless times over a period of years does not clear the path for me to actually ROOT for this guy...to stand up and CHEER for him. Tell me about how he's changed too...like you knew him before and can tell these things. Nevermind that he has a multi-million number of reasons to project a reformed persona onto the public. The guy is making millions and millions of dollars again. I won't cheer for this guy. No way. And I should "wake up?" What's that supposed to mean?
unless you boycott all products that make use of animals, more often than not abusing them in the process, then boycotting rooting for your team because of a former and repentant animal abuser makes you a freakin hypocrite.
Your not crazy, a bunch of us feel the same way. It seems many don't care what any player does, just as long as they help the Jets win. Some have higher morals than others.
Complete bullshit...complete "two wrongs make a right" strawman argument. I'm not a fan of ANYBODY that takes pleasure in the suffering of animals. It's FUN to deliberately torture animals, who feel pain just like any person does....just for shits and giggles. I won't stand up and CHEER for anybody that did that as part of their lifestyle for years. Mike Vick or whoever the fuck you are talking about. Tell me all about his repentance too, like you know something about it. You can't understand that point of view enough to respect it?
that's cool. so put your money where your mouth is and stop giving your funding to corporations who's employees have been found guilty of taking pleasure in deliberately torturing animals. no more Kroger, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc.
