That's a great table. There must be a lot of very pissed off agents out there right now with the Jets not really spending a lot in free agency. That would explain the constant noise and complaints about John Idzik's style. If his style is anything other than spend-a-lot he is significantly depressing the free agent market this year. That's not his fault or the Jets fault. It's just the mechanics of the marketplace this year.
Since when does 1 or 2 addition/subtractions destroy an entire agenda/long term plan? Did you think 5 years 30 million was reasonable for Howard? I sure didn’t. As for Giacomino..4 years 23 million is far from “comparable”. As for Pace…now all of a sudden Idzik has to pay for the acquisitions Tannenbaum made back in 2007?? The fact that all you can reference regarding Pace is his sacks says it all. Anybody who follows this defense knows what Pace brings to the table. He sets the edge exceptionally well even when placed on an island. A vital & scarce skillset the Jets have struggled to find in others. This all goes back to my original point. You’re incapable of taking a step back & seeing a bigger picture. Rather than consider the possibility of something bigger than 1 week into UFA you immediately start crying again about..well basically the last week or so. Why the hell did I even waste my time responding to you? As for Asamoah & Ward…you do realize that reports clearly state that both those guys were determined to end up at their ultimate destinations. It happens. I suppose if it really brings you satisfaction you can blame Idzik & say he missed out on them. But tell me this…how much better would those players have even MADE the Jets? Asamoah was injured & later benched for much of last season. He was far from a pro bowler & frankly was nothing more than average.Aside from age..how’s he even an upgrade from Willie Colon?? TJ Ward while solid is an In the box safety. The Jets already have a bunch of those on their roster. Decent player..but even within your “fill holes” philosophy,the Jets need a centerfielder w/ range..not another heavy hitter. Browns have all the cap room in the world, an owner w/ his pants on fire, & a brand new defensive coaching regime..why weren’t they knocking down Ward’s door to return if he’s so great?? I’m not sure I understand your point about “Still having 12 draft picks”.I’m assuming you’re suggesting that the Jets could have theoretically addressed needs via BOTH means.They absolutely could have. But if the right players aren’t available at the right price…what you view as a short term fix can very quickly turn into a liability. Then folks like you are whining a year from now about dead money & wondering why we overpaid the given player in the first place. How is having 30M in excess cap space a BAD thing? When is having money put aside EVER a bad thing? Ever think that maybe they plan on actually re-signing the front 7 core group? Dlinemen can be awfully expensive. You wanna see Wilkerson,Richardson,Harrison,Ellis, & Coples walk?? I sure don’t. And I sure as hell would be furious if the reason WHY they walked is b/c of shitty contracts given out to 2nd rate players like Asamoah.Anything to make a splash though right? The bashing of Winters/Bohanon really only furthers my point about your lack of long term vision. Rookie’s struggle.Rookie’s get better. They get bigger, stronger,adapt to their surroundings & hopefully gain consistency. Yeah both guys had some struggles year 1..to be expected. We also saw good things from both. But I guess we can subscribe to your way of thinking & just give up on any player who isn’t a flawless pro bowler by week 8 of his rookie year. And again we’re back to impatience.
A few things Jetblue .... 1st, You and your camp keep repeating over and over again how "we" all want Idzik to spend all the money, make big splashes, and "win" the free agency period. You guys just keep saying that to make your angle sound good to yourselvrs, bc I havent read anyone express these thoughts. The majority of us who are expressing concern over idzik are just saying that there were signings to be had to fill some holes. If someone posted some wildly unrealistic fa wishlist then i missed it, if u have read my posts that is not at all. If the jets actually signed some players i wanted them to go for theyd still be 20m under the cap or so. so u guys are trying to paint us as crazies, when im not reading any of that so ... yeah. 2nd, i'm assuming your either advocating or defending this notion that we are under a multi year rebuild for "Johns vision to become reality" (paraphrase). Me, and a few others have totally destroyed this notion during debate but u ppl are stubborn in your ideologies. i wont rehash, but to some it up, there are no such thing as multi year rebuilds anymore. That was like in the 70s, 80s, 90s. You old timers need to start paying attention. I could cite examples all day in the ten years of many teams going from the cellar to the penthouse in 1-2 years. IF Geno can manage grow and become an above avg starter (not even elite), there is no reason on earth why john idzik should think anything less than planning a super bowl caliber roster this year! Please dont even debate me on this anymore u ppl, its a waste of time bc u ppl are arguing with facts and its just terrible terrible old school stubbornness. 3rd ... yes i had harsh words and if i had the time, a few days later I would retract a few of them. Of course i want Idzik to succeed but I'm allowed an opinion as are others. And to just praise everything this man does is ..... not smart. Neither is ripping everything he does. Bottom line ... he's a new GM. Hes no Ozzie Newsome or Bill Polian and it shows. Did u read the report that the Jets FO actually reached out to apologize for their dealings with agents so far? If you read the REAL scoop on how DRC ended up a Giant, its alarming, thats all I can say. I hope he learns how to act like a GM should next time. But please read the facts that have been published and then tell me it doesnt raise concern .... or that all the reporters and all of their sources were lying. That seems to be the best and only argument for Idzik lovers in the face of bad pub. Again I hope Idzik is doing the right thing. I will be rooting hard for the Jets on day 1. But excuse me while I step out of the circle jerk. I dont know your history on Jets message boards, but for a very long time this was not the most popular. And as I said .... I saw this nonsensical fan praise of Terry Bradway through the Doug Jolley, McCareims trades, etc and we who ever questioned were called pssimists ... crazy fans, etc etc .... yeah how did history turn out there? So i have seen how this kind of undeserved fan support plays out too and i didnt like it then.
The question is will the fan base STFU and consume the product that Rex puts on the field? Who's to blame or exalt for the end result?
there is one other caveat... everyone has been talking about drafting bpa irregardless of their position. to have that mind set and then have a bunch of holes to fill in the draft as many are saying is the way it will be done is silly. guys who draft bpa typically fill their holes to at least a decent level before the draft so they dont have to worry about having to fill a spot. i am honestly confused about the jets plan at this point. i honestly dont know what exactly it is or if it has been followed. sure its possible they have targeted guys and failed. and thats a problem too. i am just not going to sit here and buy that we are going to fill holes through the draft when all we have ever heard out of this fo is that they draft bpa.
Well they signed a RG, RT and WR in free agency. That's 3 spots where they are free not to draft early this year if the value is not right. At WR they could choose to go with Decker and Nelson outside next year and Kerley in the slot. I think they will draft a burner for X and let Nelson backup Decker and play in 4 wides but they have the option not to do that. They have 8 CB's under contract including 3 guys with some starting experience in Milliner, Wilson and Walls. They could take a CB early or just grab another guy late. CB doesn't have to be the best position on the team. They have 3 OLB's with starting experience under contract now in Coples, Pace and Barnes. They could take an OLB early or at any point during the draft depending on how things fell. They have 2 ILB's with starting experience under contract with Harris and Davis. They probably will take an ILB at some point but it doesn't have to be early. They probably need to take a FS. They probably need to take a TE. They probably need to take a QB at some point. The Jets really have tremendous flexibility built into their draft possibilities this year. They're going to wind up taking BPA on a lot of different picks and they're likely to really raise the value of the team in the process. A lot of people think Anthony Barr might drop as low as the 18. A lot of people think Marqise Lee will be there. Either of those guys would add a potential superstar to the roster at a spot in the draft where you have to get lucky to do that. Barr is starting to look like Ed Reed to me at this point. All that talent and production and he might slide anyway.
5.75M/yr vs 6M/yr isn't comparable? Nice math. Plus there's a a whole one year difference in the contracts besides. Of course Howard is 2 years younger but who's counting right? I brought up Pace's acquisition to illustrate how you and those on your side of the fence just love to talk out of both sides of your mouth, which you of course doubled down on this go round. So on the one hand we've got Calvin Pace, over the hill dog who had his day but you say 'no he most certainly is worth 4 times his salary from last year even though he's a year older' on the strength of his hyperinflated sack total. Then on the other hand we can't blame Idzik for Tannenbaum's mistake of bringing him in through free agency SIX years ago. Hi-fucking-larious. So this integral member of the Jets family commands 4x previous salary at an age most players are retiring. But it was a mistake to bring him in through free agency in the first place more than half a decade ago. Which is it, or are you just too busy trying to have it both ways? Plus I can think of plenty of instances where he blew setting the edge this year, the one thing he could be reliably counted on for is slipping besides, but no big deal because he put up 10 sacks on a squad where a legit OLB would've put up close to 20. Good stuff. Big picture, right. I just took a step back and I see that Idzik did a fantastic job negotiating the most inflated FA on the market into only a marginally inflated contract. I see that he paid close to the same money for an older and worse RT because he came from the same team that he just left. By all means though, let's revisit this point at the end of the season and see if Howard didn't improve to a superior RT to Giacomini in his sophomore year playing. I'll lay 3-1 right now that you'll be crying 'buh buh but his contract was a whole year shorter.' Now Asamoah got benched and is a nobody? Quite the revisionist history. He got injured and his replacement, Geoff Schwartz, came in and played so well the Chiefs stuck with the hot hand for the rest of the year. Then to top it off they let both guys go in free agency which brings me to my next point that this isn't just about Asamoah and Ward. Those are just two names that would've been good fits for good value in my opinion. The list goes on. Schwartz would've been just fine too for comparable money. There were a couple CBs that could've come in and upgraded the backfield. A couple TEs that were pursued but ultimately unsigned. But saying that Asamoah is no better than Colon is just laughable. The guy is in the top 1/3 of guards by all reasonable metrics, Colon is in the bottom 1/3 especially when you start counting penalties which is why he jumped all over back to back contracts for relative peanuts. The ragtag OL would be looking a LOT better with a guy like Asamoah there to answer your question. And citing bullshit reports which spout some hearsay about how a couple of guys may or may not have signed is absolutely meaningless. Maybe there is some truth to those speculations but you have no idea whether that's the case or not and you shouldn't have any reason to think you do either. So in one sentence you figure out that you can draft exactly the same guys no matter how many FAs you sign. Then oops, next sentence you forgot again. When it comes to draft picks, especially later ones, either they hit and you're great or they don't and you're screwed. Why nobody on your side is capable of understanding those things have little to no bearing on FA acquisition strategy is pretty surprising. Actually, it isn't surprising at all but yeah keep going back to the well. Richardson isn't getting any new deal for 3 or 4 years which has 0 bearing on $30M space today. More fun fantasy irrelavancies, yay. Wilkerson's extension won't even put a dent in it. You're of course assuming that Idzik is going to find a way to pay him before he hits FA, I'm not even saying that's a foregone conclusion yet. Ellis won't command big money, Coples needs to prove it for at least a year before he even thinks about a big check. Harrison is a priority along with Wilkerson but again those two contracts don't even come close if deals even get done. I was defending Milliner on here before anybody even thought about doing that and I was getting laughed at and attacked left and right every time I brought it up. Defended Hill when I probably shouldn't have for over a year. I'm not impatient. Winters and Bohanon never showed a flash of anything. Other than showing flashes that maybe after 2-3 more years they won't be the shittiest starters at their position in the league anymore. Guess that's what you're super psyched about, nice upside.
These were my thoughts exactly 100% only difference being in who we draft I'm rooting for Cooks at 18
Its not entirely about the names on the jerseys. If the Jets could cut the turnovers in half that would equal at least 2 more wins which would make us a 10 win team. A lot of factors though, beyond just the players on the roster.
i don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but from what i've seen breno signed for 4 years, $18 mill http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/36598/contract-breakdown-breno-giacomini also, pace went from the vet min of around $1.1 mill to $2.5 a year ... that's no where near quadrupling his salary you shouldn't have to make shit up to prove a point
If you had read Kurt's post I quoted his number of $23M directly so he's the one that made that up apparently. Still @ 18M that's 4.5M/yr which is a noticeable difference but the salaries are still in the ballpark of each other and everything else holds true. Thought I remembered Pace's salary was about 700k last year, turns out it was 945k with a 60k bonus which isn't your 1.1M either. Wow I was actually off by 300k and it was late so I didn't double check and said that Pace's new contract was 4x his tiny 2013 sum instead of 2.5x. Oh boy.
those salaries aren't in the ballpark of one another ... howard got $15 mill guaranteed and breno got $7 mill. guaranteed dollars are the most important aspect of an nfl contract i said pace received "around $1.1 mill", pretty sure $1.05 mill is around that number ... and you don't know if he's making 2.5 times his salary until we see what he is guaranteed to make in the first year of this two year deal. the odds of pace seeing the second year of that deal are slim
must have missed the superbowl Kap and Vick have won. RW is much more of a thrower than a runner. Kap and young Vick (Less vick nowadays he is a passer) are more of runners.
The Jets are not rebuilding they were 8-8 last year and have a great pass rush. They get some good QB play and legit offensive weapons they will contend. Signing a bunch "Top" FA has never been a successful model.
Oh so 1.05 rounds up to 1.1 these days and being 10% off is remarkably 'close', then meanwhile nitpick my quoting the other guys mistaken figure and make definitive value judgments about when 'close' isn't 'close' anymore. You people are too much I swear.
please tell me you are joking. Is there a camera focused on me waiting for my reaction, at which point you are going to jump out with a camera crew to reveal this is all a set up? you are claiming that you're arguing facts, based on the claim "IF Geno can manage grow and become an above avg starter (not even elite)" than the Jets will not only not be in a multi-year rebuild but will be a Super Bowl team this year? That's not a fact, that's a hypothetical. Just because you and a "few others" don't know the difference between facts and hypotheticals doesn't mean you have destroyed this notion, it means you don't know what you are talking about. But, please proceed and show us all the Super Bowl caliber teams that are manned just by average QB's.
In truth, all teams rebuild every year...even the top teams that win the SB. The Ravens team that won the SB with Flacco has a grand total of 8 players remaining on that team who played in the SB just 3 yrs ago.
