Jets at End of rope with Stephen Hill(pft)

Try reading again what I wrote. First, I said Rex could be part of the problem in terms of not motivating Hill to get better in response to Hill being unmotivated and lazy. Then in the very next sentence said,

So you see, I'm not really blaming Rex, I just said that could be part of the problem, and it possibly could be as we all know that Rex knows nothing about the offense, and doesn't get very involved with it. I understand that you probably read it quickly, as I have done to posts on occasion, and didn't read carefully, and so misunderstood what I was saying. Further, I wrote that I think that poor coaching from Sanjay Lal and not having a quality veteran WR to mentor him are probably part of the problem. Hill may be dumb. He may be somewhat lazy, though I haven't read about that before. There definitely is something wrong somewhere.

I accept your apology.

 

I specifically included my reasoning in the post there - just in case you missed it.

> If he was good enough to be drafted in the NFL, he is certainly good enough to compete there.
> [as in if Jets didn't draft him in 2nd, he could have been drafted later down the road somewhere -
> he wouldn't have gone undrafted.] Thus, at least in my eyes, it is not a problem of talent, attitude
> or mentality. It is more or less the proper techniques that should have been taught.

Of course I had to teach one kid who couldn't count the dimes in a dollar - and that was in a community college. But that aside, the moral of the story doesn't just ring true in the school classroom. If I didn't tell you yet, I have also served in the military. [ETSed as E-5] As I [or the 1SG for that matter] would almost always preach, if the PVT or PFC is repeatedly failing a routine task, even with all the good intentions, that's not on him. The fault is on 1. whoever recruited the kid, who was not up to the task or 2. whoever trained him. And that's about the exact same message I've been repeating over and over for the past few years. Jets scouting department needs some healthy dose of shitcan, and Jets position coaches - especially Sanjay Lal - needs some shitcan. I was so glad that Cav was gone - but I don't know what to feel about David Lee. Sanchez did improve by a mile [he never completed higher than 60% in any phase of his career before David Lee tagged along.] so Geno sucking is more or less on either Geno being a rookie, or on Geno being a retard that I think he is.

 

Yada, yada, yada. If you post an article you need to credit it to someone, especially if the writer's basis for his opinion is something Mehta has written.

 

I'll stand by my statement that I didn't attack anyone or call them a tool. I made a broad statement about the mentality of the board. If you're not a pro-bowl player in your first year and every year that this fan base will eat you alive. It's unbelievable.

The other side of that is people who just pop in and dump garbage into whatever post they feel like. You can lump yourself into that category. You're actually a pretty prime example. This is what 3-4 posts now with no agenda other then to pick a fight or try and pump your internet tough guy ego?

Anyway, Sorry about that, Back to the adult conversation;

 

I think the biggest thing is his health. He's had hamstring issues, knee surgery/swelling, and a concussion. He went into this season still not 100% from his surgery which slowed his progress and his chemistry with Geno. I think with a full offseason to recover and coming into camp healthy will really help him. It's crazy to me that you guys would rather cut him then even give him a spot in TC.

There was actually a surprising number of times per game that Hill had good separation but was rarely targeted. Bent @ TJB had a really solid write up that I think is worth a read. It has illustrations and breakdowns of most of the targets in the game.

( see: http://thejetsblog.com/bga/bga-receivers-hill-streak-blues/#more-79151 - It's got pictures and everything. )

 

Based on what I've seen, Lee is very respected in league circles. He's the one that devised the wildcat in Miami. He's supposedly a sound technician.

I think you're proving to be way too harsh on Geno. The kid had hardly ever taken a snap from under center. The WCO offense is known to be complex, especially its drops and timing. It is extremely difficult to make technique changes in the heat of battle (a game). I am a voice teacher and professional singer. In my experience both in refining my own vocal technique and in teaching others to sing correctly/refine their technique, it is very difficult to perform in any kind of polished or excellent manner in a performance when one is still having to think too much about technique. Any kind of physical activity that involves the whole body, and technique and muscle memory, be it ballet, golf, football, singing (classically or operatically) takes lots and lots of reps focusing on basically that and nothing else, to solidify. In a football game, if one thinks too much, one will be stiff/uptight and will make mistakes. One has to be free, relaxed, poised and confident to do one's best. It's almost impossible to play or perform that way when one is still focused on technique changes. In an ideal world, Geno would have never seen the playing field last year. He would have had the whole year to focus solely on learning the offense, working on taking snaps from under center, his drops, and whatever other technical refinements/changes he needed. In that way he could have ingrained those changes into muscle memory until they became second nature to him and he no longer had to think about them. Then when he took the field, his play should, and most likely would, have been on an entirely different level. Geno was trying to do too much last season, both in terms of trying to execute the full offense while working on changing his fundamental techniques as a QB, but also because the Jets had so little in the way of quality players around him on offense, he was also trying to do "too much" to help them win, and was pressing and forcing the ball. That led to a lot of his mistakes.

Unless he is lazy, stupid, or Lee and MM are bad coaches, we should see a very different and much better Geno this season.

 

I'm not sure why I'm wasting my breath.I'm sure ill just be called a broken record & a homer. I will never understand impatience & pessimism associated with this desire to write off young players.It isnt just Hill.It was the same with Brick, Cotchery, Pouha, & others.

Most young players need to take their lumps. When you draft a player you do so for the long term not for just next season.You're signing up for their long term development good or bad. This instant gratification crap is beyond foolish. You dont give up on raw early draft picks at Wr going into their 3rd season. The only exceptions are major injury, off the field or complete non production(not the case with Hill)

Now he isn't likely to become a starter at this stage.But if he can stick as a #4 or #5 why wouldnt you want him? There arent many #4s who can get behind a defense like he can. This isnt madden. In todays nfl you need multiple weaoons who can beat you in different ways.Maybe he isnt a starter.Maybe he cant run every route. Most role playing wrs typically only run 4-5 routes in their limited role.Thats ok.

The special teams issue will make things hard on Hill. I Just cant wrap my head around this craze for giving up on untapped talent..especially in a potential vspecialized role

 

They are not the same as Brick, Cotchery, Pouha, or Brandon Moore.

Brick showed promise from Day 1, it took him a while to become consistent but he didn't disappear like Hill in his 2nd year. All Cotchery needed was an opportunity. Pouha you have a case for but even so he got a chance to play he did something every game.

Hill has disappeared for games on games. No contribution with high # of snaps? Gotta put some on coaching, but some players aren't cut out for the position. Hill is a great athlete, but is he a good football player? People are comparing him to D. Thomas, yet neglect the fact that he and Calvin played in different offenses.

To Geno's development, Nelson is far more crucial to have on the field, over Stephen Hill

 

Hill was a project the Jets couldn't afford to take on. They needed instant production at the WR position and drafting him was a HUGE Tanny blunder.

 

give him one more year, if he ends up being a ghost again, or even by mid-season. Cut him.

 

All players are different, and we can't fault Hill for where we drafted him. Everyone knew he was raw. He played in a run first school and had 49 *career* receptions in college.

I'm not saying he's going to ever be as good as either of those players. I'm just trying to fend off the people asking for him to be cut. We need to give players like this a chance to develop. You can't draft development picks and then dump them because they don't produce in their first year. That's just bad business.

If he can't get healthy, He's got to go. Beyond that I can't think of any reason he should be cut from the roster this year. He and Nelson are of the same build but VERY different WRs. Nelson is a big body target that runs good routes and has good hands. Hill is bigger and faster and has a much higher ceiling. I'd like to keep both of them.

Second thought, Nelson should bulk up and move to TE.

 

You aren't wasting your breath. Keep saying it. Maybe eventually it will sink in for some. Let's face it, our whole culture has been taught to seek immediate gratification. That's what is glorified in the media. Everything is supposed to come fast and easy. Anything that requires hard work and discipline is considered to be boring, for suckers, and too much trouble. Few want to study history and learn from that history. Few want to heed the advice of the more experienced or more well trained. Many think they are an expert and know more and better than those who have spent their lives studying and training to do certain things. Many don't have respect for others. The problem is that all those things aren't reality. Experience teaches us that the things we have to work the hardest at are the things that we often get the most out of and mean the most to us. Experience teaches us that not everything comes fast or easily, and for those that it does come fast and/or easily, they often get bored with it, or aren't the best at it. They continue to try to get by on natural ability and what they already know and stop trying to learn and grow. Many don't have the ability to think for themselves and filter through all the lies, misinformation, and unhealthy ideas that our culture throws at them.

Another problem is that for those of us Jets fans who have been rooting for the team for 20 years or more, we are tired of the losing, of too many years being wasted on mediocre players, of too much patience on the part of the owner, GM and HC with mediocre, incompetent, GMs, HCs and players. We see other teams continually find great players throughout the draft and as UDFAs. We see them making great decisions and great hires, and we have grown impatient. We let that impatience color our perspectives and work against what we know with our rational mind to make the most sense.

Another problem is that traditionally with most NFL teams, those bottom of the roster WRs are usually STs players as much as they are WRs, and with Hill not being a STer, that hurts the team.

I think still another aspect of this impatience is that some of us have little, if any, trust in our CS and their ability to develop young players. If these fans see a player that hasn't produced much in two years, they think the chances of his ever contributing much are slim with this CS, so the team might as well go ahead cut bait, and hopefully do a better job of identifying and bringing in players who can not only contribute, but contribute early and often. We're tired of not having many players we can root for.

Hill should have NEVER been taken in the 2nd round. He was extremely raw, had questionable hands, and came from an option offense where he did little more than block and run go routes and deep outs. He was drafted pretty much on his size and speed alone. He was a known project. That frustrates a lot of fans because they know that "project" football players shouldn't be taken in the 2nd round, nor should a #4 or #5 WR be taken in the 2nd round. It might be different if the team hadn't also taken another project just a year or so before in Vlad, and he has contributed so little in 3-4 years. I think that is causing a lot of the impatience with Hill. I think if Vlad hadn't been picked in the 2nd round and been basically a bust, that some fans wouldn't be as impatient with Hill. I think if Hill was a low-round draft pick or UDFA, that fans wouldn't be as impatient with him. It's just the fact that 2nd round picks should be quality starters and should have shown steady progress and improvement after two years in the league and Hill just hasn't shown that. According to an article I saw last spring, or maybe during early TC, the CS thought Hill improved quite a bit during his 1st year with the team. The problem is we didn't really see that on the field.

I think yet another aspect of the problem is that Hill is so athletic and fast, it's hard to grasp how he can look so uncomfortable, so clumsy and bumbling when trying to catch the ball sometimes.

What gets me is that some of the same people who are impatient with Hill and ready to see him cut, are some of the very ones who still are the most ardent supporters of Tanny and say that he was an excellent GM.

 

Oh how convenient. People don't share your opinion so you make a broad stroking statement about the board in general and somehow in your mind that doesn't equate to you calling anyone anything.

You can lump yourself into my nuts.

Stephen hill is trash. Feel free to come back and tell everyone they're tools for knowing hill sucked dicks when he gets cut prior to the season starting.

 

Letting Braylon and Cotchery go was the blunder of Tanny's career, and snowballed into drafting Hill to a spot he wasn't ready for with no real mentor on the team to look up to or learn from. Add onto that he had Sanchez and Smith throwing the ball and he was hurt..

There's a lot of things stacked up against the kid, but no one's asking for a violin. Just stop calling for his head until we've given him a fair shot.

 

Someone. A person who is willing to put their name on what they write, not some kid sitting in his grandmother's basement pecking away on an old Dell telling us what Mehta said. (pffft!)

 

Lol.Hill is trash, winters is trash, milliner is trash..and god forbid anyone show the slightest confidence in geno.

Some of you in are just miserable football fans. You should really yourselves a favor & stop trying to follow the jets draft or player development.cause none of yiu have a clue.

 

Well said...?