The problem is not everyone is going to be saying good job. There were two CFL players that got suspended or given fines or whatever when they said negative things about his sexuality. Those were the two that were dumb enough to post something on social media about it, there is 0% chance that these are the only two football players in the world that feel this way. It's just not the case. Some people are homophobic, just like some people are sexist or racist, it's just a reality of the world we live in. You are trying to deny that reality and it makes you look foolish. As has been posed numerous times by several posters here: If coming out as the first gay NFL player was such an easy thing, all positives and no negatives, why hasn't it happened before now? Why wouldn't someone else want to get all of these alleged endorsements and great marketing opportunities that were just waiting to be plucked up? It's a given that Sam is not the first gay player in the NFL, hell even last year there was a story with a bunch of gay NFL players that were all going to come out together but the backed out of it at the last minute. If there was such overwhelming support and only great things could come of it why would they back out? Especially if it was going to be a group of them as it's easier to lash out at an individual but harder against a bigger number. Isn't it likely that they have seen what life would be like in the locker room being a gay man? Heard the guys making gay jokes, saying slurs against gays, talking about their opinions about gay rights, making comments about how they wouldn't want to shower with a gay guy or maybe even some guys were violent towards gay people in the past. Your logic just doesn't compute.
nobody claimed EVERYBODY is going to be supportive. if you actually think my position even remotely intimates that I think every single person in the world is okay with homosexuals, and is dependent on that, you are the one looking extremely foolish. if you don't think the majority opinion in this country is that people are okay with homosexuals being open in society, then you are again the foolish one. there is no current poll that shows the majority of people in this country are biased against homosexuals and do not want them to participate openly in society. please present one shred of evidence to support your ridiculous position. just one. no, you simply continue to argue something completely irrelevant and think you are addressing my point. the argument isn't about the NFL culture, it is about the larger public support. public support that will change the NFL culture. you don't think it will? than you again are the one looking foolish because you have to ignore the public statements by the NFL and the NFLPA about his coming out. change to whatever the environment was prior is obviously is coming with him. the fact that you don't grasp that and continue to argue irrelevant points is embarrassing for you. I've been very clear about the specific argument, and you (and others) continue to ignore that and argue completely separate issues, mainly because you can't present any evidence to support a conclusion that would dispute my position. what personal issues any other potential player may be facing is irrelevant. the fact is Sam came out to a media, league and majority of society welcoming him with open arms.
I don't have time to debate you endlessly on this subject, but you are completely and entirely off base. This is not an election when the "majority wins" kind of thing. Yes, opinions are changing and the public at large, particularly young people, are generally supportive of gay rights. However, and this is a big however and one that you just don't seem to be able to grasp, there is a huge part of the US population that is adamantly opposed to gay rights. If 40% of the US population is opposed to gay rights, that is 120 million plus people. And not only that, but a significant portion of those opposed to gay rights are far from indifferent. Their reaction to gays is visceral and full of hatred. When millions of people express negative, hateful, ignorant opinions about who a person can and should be able to love, it is not a "welcoming" society. When a large portion of the Christian community and others thing that gay marriage is a bigger threat to the "institution" of marriage and society in general than divorce or adultery, we still have a long way to go. When there is senseless violence in supposedly tolerant places like NYC against gays, then society is not welcoming of gays. When teenagers have to hide their sexual preferences from their parents and friends for fear of physical harm or being ostracized, when gay teen suicide rates are through the roof compared to the general teen suicide rates, then society is not welcoming. When the church you were raised in and volunteered your time to considers you an abomination and your lifestyle a choice and a sin, society is not welcoming. Why do we need straight ally support groups like Athlete Ally and PFLAG? Why, as you have continually been asked, is Mike Sam the first and only gay professional (to be) athlete to come out? Why don't we know who the two gay players on the the 1993 Oilers are? You are way way off base here. You need to walk a mile in a gay man's shoes before you continually carry on about how the current environment is so great and welcoming for the gay community.
This. You take the country inside 50 miles off of each coast and a large portion of those folks are not too accepting of gay lifestyles. I'm not sure people in Nebraska or Iowa or Kansas or Arkansas feel like folks in NYC and Boston and Miami and LA and SF and Seattle. We're 2 different countries. Neither is better than the other, just different _
I think it's the Houston Oilers... one of the rumored players was Jeff Alm. No idea who the other one is but yeah Glenn Anderson was a bastard.....
Not really, the last poll numbers the only of the 4 regions of the US, (Northeast, Midwest, West, and South) only the South is below 50% support for gay marriage. Of the individual States (if you exclude those within the 2-3% error rate of the polls) only 16 States fall under 47% support, while 20 States are above 53% support. The remaining 14 States hover between 47% and 53% with 6 of them being 51% or higher and 4 being 49% or lower the remaing 5 states are at 50%. 51% of all adults support gay marriage, which of course is within the error percentage of the poll so actual result may be as low as 48% or as high as 54%.
But the real indicator is the fact that for people under the age of 50 support for marriage rights runs at about 60%.....for those over 50 it runs at 42% and it's those over 65 that drags that number down, over age 65 support falls to 39%...it's clear where the future is taking it. Just like Minority rights in the 50's and 60's when it was mostly those under 50 that were pushing for and in favor of change.
Where are those states? How are those stats skewed? The NE is comprised in large part but the tri-state area and New England, the west is comprised in large part by California and the Pacific west coast. I'm not sure central and Midwest and southern America is as supportive as the coasts and major cities. _
The Northern Midwestern states offset the lower Midwestern states of the northern part of the Bible Belt. Still these two facts remain...Under age 50 near 60% support same sex marriage and 51-52% of the total population supports it. The portion of the population that doesn't support it is dying off. The future is clear and it's clear which side of the argument will be on the losing side of history.
From your post: "if everyone walking down the street says good job to you for coming out" That's what I was replying to. So, yes, you literally claimed EVERYBODY was going to be supportive. You keep talking about society at large, that isn't even remotely what I'm talking about. I've specifically said multiple times that an NFL player's life is lived in the locker room with his team mates and the coaches and so and and so on. It is the support or lack thereof that he has to be concerned with. All I've been saying is that it takes courage to come out as gay in the locker room context because it isn't the same as society at large, there is a different mentality like the difference between working with truck drivers vs barristas in a vegan friendly, free-trade coffee shop. There are going to be different mentalities. How does it help him if a family in Nebraska thinks he should have the right to get married to another man if his team mates don't want to sit beside him on the bus or get dinner with him or call him names when nobody else is around? It doesn't at all and that's what you can't seem to wrap your head around that society at large and the inner workings of a locker room are not identical. We are clearly arguing different points, likely because the points myself and other people are very damaging to your argument that everything is all peach-keen for Sam and that it didn't take courage to do what he did. You're doing an okay job at trying to dodge the question that completely obliterates your argument that it didn't take courage to do what he did but until you come up with an answer to it no changing the topic and dancing around the answer and attacking the person asking you the question is going to give you the upper hand in this argument. So, again, for about the fifth time: If it didn't take courage to do what Sam did why hasn't anyone done it before him? If it is all positives and no negatives, if it is all for future endorsements and being made out to be hero then why didn't anyone claim that glory for themselves beforehand? Isn't it pretty obvious that there must be some negatives to it and therefore it took courage for Sam to do what he did because he's the first one to take on those negatives and those challenges when he could have just been quiet about it like whatever prior number of gay players there has been in the NFL? Note: Unless you want to address the actual question in a reasonable manner I'm not going to respond to you anymore. If you can't accept this very obviously, glaring truth then you're either just being a bit of a troll or just aren't a rational person and therefore are not worth my time. So don't expect a response if you just post another response ignoring the flaws in your argument and talk about the public/media support.
I'm not arguing that it isn't dying off or that their isn't support there. Hell, I support it. I'm just skeptical that folks on the interior are as enlightened. If only 52% of the population supports it and if the far majority of the population lives on or near the coasts--someone on the interior isn't happy :grin: _
Don't give RG III any ideas. That clown calls pressers to announce what cereal he eats in the morning
That poll quoted had California only at 54% support, or just outside of the margin of error. Minnesota, Illinois, Wisconsin, and a couple of other Midwestern States pushed the Midwest over the 51% mark. Of the Midwestern States Kansas had the lowest support followed by Iowa (if I recall) and then Missouri (a State which has one of the highest gay/lesbian communities in the nation, especially in Kansas City and St Louis). I support gay marriage because I think everyone deserves their right to a divorce settlement
If anyone had any doubts that Sams' rookie jersey won't be a big seller, apparently the biggest selling jersey on NBA.com the last 2 days is Jason Collins' Nets jersey. I would guess Nike usually only puts out the top top top rookie jerseys as a featured jersey, but I'm guessing even if Sams is a 4th rounder, they'll do one for him. And it'll sell big. As it should. _
Anybody see this attention whore doing Johnny Football's money sign after sacking him? That type of thing annoys me in general, but especially for a guy who hasn't done shit in the league
If he was mocking an established player I'd agree, but I think what he did was perfect because it reflects how over rated Manziel is to get sacked and mocked by him.
He's the last guy that should be using hand gestures to make another player. I'd hate to see what gestures players could use to mock him. haha
