Let us Never Compare Peyton to Brady again

Also, we can stop with this talk only after we go back in time and pretend that Seattle's D didn't completely snuff out an offense that scored 600+ points and a QB that threw 55 TDs. You could probably add up the TD passes of all 3 QBs the teams you named faced in the playoffs and my guess is none of them even reach 55 total. Different era, but let's not get crazy here. Kerry Collins or Peyton Manning? Tony Eason or Peyton Manning? Gannon the only guy close but did not have anywhere near a season like Manning did. It's a shame they couldn't have shut down the immortal Tom Brady to get your respect, since that like hasn't ever happened in the playoffs the past decade or so.

 

Well damn, you got pretty high standards then. :beer:

It's not really a measurable ("winning" football versus "losing" football) but in the Patriots' two SB losses, it's not like Brady didn't show up. They had late leads in both of 'em. He's had some bad playoff games (2009 Ravens, 2010 Jets) but I don't think the way he played in the two SB losses doomed the Patriots.

I also disagree with you regarding 2001. They didn't ask him to do a lot. When they did, he delivered in historic fashion.

 

Well I would hope he would show up against 9-7 and 10-6 teams that barely were better than average during the regular season. Any list ranking the best SB winners of all-time will surely have both Giants teams near the bottom, deservedly so regardless of what the Pats/Brady did or didn't do in those games. He was also up against Eli Manning both times. Sure, Eli has had his moments, but you know going into that game that it isn't going to be a shootout and scoring 21+ all but guarantees victory.

 

he had late leads because the defense kept the game close, not because the defense was giving up points and he kept the team in it by matching it.

in a low scoring game it is the defense that is keeping the game close by their effort, not the offense, unless you are claiming that Brady's gameplan was to not score as many points as possible (especially Giants 1 when he had the top offense in league history).

that is like saying in 42-40 high scoring game the defense kept the game close because it was only two points.

 

are you arguing, with that comment, that there is no garbage time completion and TD's because the entire game counts?

if so, Manning set the record for most completion in a Super Bowl. the game is 60 minutes, that is then meaningful.

 

Do I think the yards Brees accumulated in the 4th quarter when his team trailed 16-0 then 23-7 are very meaningful or indicative of how great the Seahawks D was? No, I do not. They held him scoreless for 7 quarters prior to that and were never remotely threatened with the possibility of losing in that game. You must have LOVED Peyton's passing completions SB record going by this logic.

The excuse is Kaepernick is quite damn difficult to deal with outside of the pocket and those Ds you mentioned didn't encounter a QB in the playoffs that played like him.

Why is it overreacting when the Seahawks played 19 games this season and their D was great in just about all of them? Sorry, most conservative estimates still have Peyton as a top 5-10 QB of all-time, so shutting him down after he throws 55 TDs in a season is not considered a negative for me. That's a pretty incredible statement by a D. I get it, you think shutting down Peyton in the playoffs is meaningless, but shutting down Kerry Collins and Tony Eason makes you the GOAT. Hard to argue with that "logic"....

 

He appears to be arguing that the Ds he referenced as all-time shut down higher octane passing attacks and QBs in the playoffs than this Seahawks D just did, or would have surrendered even less to Brees, Kaep and Manning than the Seahawks did. Either or must be his position or else I don't see how he can make such definitive statements.

 

irrelevant. a QB can play poorly and the game be kept close by the defense. a close game does not excuse a QB's bad play or mean the QB didn't play bad. just because it could have been worse is an entirely different discussion.

 

After an onside kick recovery (non-surprise onsides kicks have lower than 20 percent recovery rate) and with like 15 seconds left. Even still, Brees is a way better QB than any QB those defenses faced in the playoffs, so props to him for scoring 2 TDs in 8 quarters against the 2013 Seahawks D. By his lofty standards, that is abominable. But for you, it's enough to definitvely say the Seahawks D does not belong in the conversation with those others Ds.

And whether or not those Ds faced garbage time, they sure as hell never faced QBs like Brees and Manning in the playoffs , or offenses like the 2013 Saints and Broncos. Maybe the Bucs did against Gannon, but they did also yield some points in that game. Marino lit up the '85 Bears during the season if I recall correctly. Hell, Vinny Testaverde almost threw for 500 yards against that Ravens D in the final game of that season.

 

Or maybe Seattle's offense continues to score on every possession like they were doing, except with the bonus of having an extra possession? Just because they handled Brady and the Pats offense doesn't make the Broncos D this unstoppable unit. They were missing their best CB, their best pass rusher, and were clearly outmatched by Seattle's talent on offense in that game. The game was not competitive on either side of the ball.

 

I agree it is different, but the broad comment that the game is 60 minutes means you can't dismiss anything that happens within that 60 minutes. just pointing out the flaw of that criteria of your argument.

 

I think a 19 game sample is more meaningful than a 3-game sample, particularly when the 3-game sample included 2 games against surefire HoF QBs while the other defenses over the same small sample did not face a QB that is or will ever be in the HoF. How can you not factor in the QBs faced? Do you realize the Bears played Tony freakin Eason in the SB? Look at the whole season if you want to meaningfully compare, this is a bad troll tactic by you. There is no right or wrong answer to this question, but for you to discredit a D because they yielded a few points to 2 HoF QBs and another guy who might be the fastest QB runner ever is, well, trollish.

 

Ok so against a HoF QB, they yielded 15 points and permitted him to have about 15 seconds of a one-score possession deficit (in the entire 2nd half) late in the 4th quarter where only a successful Hail Mary and 2-point conversion could have even put the game in OT. I am sure the Seahawks D is really losing sleep over that defensive performance.

 

Blue, his team did everything in the first half to keep him in the game. What more did you expect? his runningback to pick up the ball and get out of the endzone to avoid the safety? or do you expect the special teams to block the FG that Manning put into FG range off an interception? or did you expect the lineman to catch Malcom Smith? When the score hit 22-0 it was over.

If Manning takes kneels the entire first half we are looking at a 10-0 game, instead he hands them 2 points on the safety, spots them 3 points on a FG, and throws the game away on a pick 6. Did the defense quit in the second half? yeah, but you know what, when the game was still a game, the defense played, the special teams played, Manning handed the game to the Seahawks and was the only reason it was uncompetitive. If those mistakes dont happen, we have a competitive game and who knows what happens.