Trading up

Up until last year the scouting staff was really very mediocre in terms of finding players in the mid to later rounds. They were one of the weakest organizations in the NFL at making the latter part of the draft matter.

I don't see all that much that has changed. My guess is that we get a major house-cleaning after 2014 with the scouting staff being completely revamped and the Jets college scouting effort going a different direction.

You can't be the Seahawks or 49ers without hitting on some big picks in the mid to late rounds. You need star players out of those rounds now and then and the Jets have just been very bad at getting that done.

 

Of course. Football is a team sport. One guy's difference is easily gobbled up in team effort.

As it stands, Jets lack talent in half the team roster.

They need better protection [2x OG/OT], better play makers [2x WR, PLUS maybe TE], better QB play [may not be addressed this draft, or by some cosmic luck Geno does some less of this dumb shit.] And we didn't even go over to the defense yet.

On defense, speed is so sorely lacking that it hurts to even address it. 2x OLBs need their replacement real soon, followed by 1x ILB, provided Davis pans out. They never had a good prospect in FS/SS spot, and Cro is getting old [meaning you NEED a CB replacement.]

When situation is like this, are you saying Jets should trade the picks away to fill ONE need? Yep. You are nuts.

 

So? That wouldn't have been the end of the world. When you trade up, it had better pay off longer term for your team. With Revis it did for a while, but he was always greedy, and eventually became so greedy that the owner wanted no part of him and now he's no longer with the team. They also traded up for Shonn Greene and that was a total waste.

 

The difference between Watkins or Evans and Beckham, Lee, Matthews or Davante Adams is not as great as losing the potential starting OG, FS, TE and whomever the Jets currently have to play those spots. That 3rd round pick very easily could and perhaps should, wind up being a starter for the Jets. The Jets have too many holes to even think about trading up. I'm not saying that you're nuts, but I think the idea of trading up sure is.

 

Why? Just because Tanny was a totally incompetent moron, doesn't mean that quality players can't be or aren't found in those rounds every single draft. Other GMs find them. We have every right to expect that Idzik will/should. Have you ever looked at draft history? There used to be more rounds, and some of the greatest players in NFL history (and the Jets) were players taken in rounds below the present 7th round. If Idzik can't find quality players in those rounds, especially after having worked under Schneider in Seattle, then he should be fired sooner rather than later, but he deserves a couple of drafts with his own scouting and personnel people.

 

I thought I read somewhere online that Idzik didnt want to sign any free agents that might affect their number of compensatory picks this year. I'm not even sure if thats how it works, I just remember reading that.

He seems like he truly values draft picks, which leads me to believe that he wont be trading too much.

 

It has little to do with Tanny. I was against trading up long before he was hired to be the cap guru, much less the GM. He just solidified my thinking. He made it abundantly clear for anyone who had an open mind and was willing to learn the lesson, exactly why you don't trade up. Sorry that you didn't learn that lesson.

 

It's not only Tanny.. It's that trading up rarely pans out to be a HUGE success with ANY organization.

The only good trade up i can remember in the past 5 years was for Julio Jones and he still missed nearly an entire year last year.

In football it seems it's best to let the chips fall where they may.

 

Dude, if you seriously think Tanny did a great job, you need to take up following another sport, because you know absolutely nothing about football. Nothing.

I knew early on that Tanny was not qualified and in over his head. Yes, it did take a number of years for most people to realize how bad he was. That just goes to show how dumb the average fan is and how little most learn from watching the games and following the sport. They're like lemmings and follow the crowd, never having an original thought of their own. The word is "incompetent" and it obviously applies to you, not me.

 

Trading up is cannibalizing your roster to feed the top few slots. Isn't that obvious based on how the Jets have performed over the era in which they never saw a trade up they didn't like?

The Julio Jones trade up gave the Falcons a short-term high which resulted in a nasty hangover last season. How long the hangover sticks around is dependent on how well Jones can play with several very painful screws in his foot. He's young enough that he may actually play well for a few years but he is likely toast beyond that.

The RGIII trade up took the Redskins out of an emerging window for them based on several good draft picks the previous two years. It was good for a one year boost and then a hangover, which is almost certain to last another year or two because the Redskins are still giving up high #1 picks and RGIII is not the same player since his knee got shredded in 2012.

Trading up just doesn't work very often even when you hit on the player you trade up for. If you're wrong about him then you are a cellar-dweller for awhile.

 

Tanny's problem was a total lack of patience and he would panic thinking he was going to lose a certain player and trade up.

The Jets problem is lack of depth.

Here's the best way I can describe the theory of constantly trading up hurting a team:........The draft is like a Lotto, the more picks (Tickets) the better chance of hitting a winner.

 

Yes. The Jets have little depth, but I think they also have holes at starting positions because of Tanny's constant trading up.

I totally agree with your last sentence. The draft is a crap shoot. All the testing and evaluation can't guarantee that high draft picks will work out or develop. Some players are so-so in college and then they either mature late, or once they start getting quality coaching, or get in the right system or situation, they blossom or the light goes on, and they become top quality starters. The more picks a team has, the more needs it can address, the more it can upgrade a variety of areas of the team, and the greater its chances of finding quality players.

 

Seriously, bleedgreen, think about this. Let's say the Jets do give up a 3rd to the Ravens to trade up for Evans. Then Evans not only has the pressure of being the #1 pick of the Jets and becoming a key weapon for Geno, but he also has to play at the level of two potential starters. Then there's the very real possibility that Evans could suffer a major injury his rookie season that, if it didn't end his career, could wind up hampering him his entire career. There's also the possibility because of all their needs and the way the draft falls, they might not be able to draft a 2nd WR, whereas if they didn't trade up for Evans, they might have been able to get Lee or Beckham at #18 then Landry, Davante Adams, or another quality WR with that 3rd round pick that they gave up to Baltimore. Adding two quality WRs is better than adding just one, and would especially be more important if Evans wound up getting hurt, or if one or both of the two WRs the Jets could have taken if they didn't trade up, wind up being better NFL WRs than Evans. There are many more scenarios as well. With that 3rd round pick, the Ravens could get Attaochu or a S prospect and that player could wind up being a perennial All Pro and eventual Hall of Famer.

The bottom line is that it is almost impossible for one player to have the impact of two when both players are quality players themselves.

 

I understand where you're coming from, as I do BleedGreen, but the problem is that players with "elite talent" bust every single year or they suffer career-ending or altering injuries. You're taking a huge risk to trade two picks for one. If you miss and the picks are lower, it doesn't hurt as much, but still hurts.

You can't trade comp picks, but even though they're at the end of the round, I wouldn't trade them if I could. With just one of those picks you could find a potential stud. I'm not saying that they were comp picks, but do you think that when Seattle drafted Richard Sherman or Kam Chancellor that they knew they'd develop into stud/Pro Bowl caliber starters? I don't. I think they liked them and saw potential, but they had no idea for certain what kind of players those two would become. Again, two good players almost always trumps one good player.

 

Trading up for Watkins means the Jets are one player away from contending. That is not the case.

If we were coming off a conference title game and Geno was the bonafide answer, sure why not.

Other then that, trading up is stupid and could set this team back if that player does not perform. The team's depth chart is awful at the bottom, we need to improve the entire football team.

 

Watkins is a very good player, but let's not kid ourselves.....he's not even in the same class of Megatron. I wouldn't trade for Watkins in the top 5....eventhough he will be drafted in the top 5. I don't even think Watkins will be as good as AJ Green, so for me, Watkin's value is more of a player drafted around #8-10. A good #1 NFL WR but not a superstar.

 

The Dolphins say hello.

Trading up last year really did them wonders.