Scout.com rates the OLBs as follows: Anthony Barr SR 6-4/245/- UCLA Los Angeles, CA Khalil Mack SR 6-2.5/245/- Buffalo Fort Pierce, FL Ryan Shazier JR 6-2/210/- Ohio State Plantation, FL Kyle Van Noy SR 6-3/240/- BYU Reno, NV Telvin Smith SR 6-3/210/- Florida State Valdosta, GA Christian Jones SR 6-4/237/- Florida State Winter Park, FL Trent Murphy SR 6-6/261/- Stanford Phoenix, AZ Ronald Powell JR 6-4/245/- Florida Moreno Valley, CA Trevor Reilly SR -/-/- Utah Escondido, CA Jeremiah Attaochu SR 6-3/242/- Georgia Tech Washington, DC Adrian Hubbard JR 6-6/227/- Alabama Norcross, GA Jake Ryan JR 6-3/241/- Michigan Cleveland, OH Vic Beasley JR 6-4/235/- Clemson Adairsville, GA CBS.com rates them this way: 8 Khalil Mack OLB 1 Buffalo rSr 6-3 248 1 11 Anthony Barr OLB 2 UCLA Sr 6-4 248 1 33 *Ryan Shazier OLB 3 Ohio State Jr 6-2 230 1-2 39 Kyle Van Noy OLB 4 BYU rSr 6-3 244 1-2 47 Trevor Reilly OLB 5 Utah rSr 6-5 255 2 60 Telvin Smith OLB 6 FSU Sr 6-3 218 2 67 *Carl Bradford OLB 7 ASU rJr 6-1 243 2-3 84 Jeremiah AttaochuOLB 8 Ga Tech Sr 6-3 252 2-3 91 Jordan Zumwalt OLB 9 UCLA Sr 6-4 231 3 106 Christian Kirksey OLB 10 Iowa Sr 6-2 234 3-4 117 Jordan Tripp OLB 11 Montana rSr 6-3 237 3-4 133 *Adrian Hubbard OLB 12 Alabama rJr 6-6 255 4 146 Prince Shembo OLB 13 Notre Dame Sr 6-2 254 4-5 154 *Ronald Powell OLB 14 Florida rJr 6-3 240 4-5 159 Devon Kennard OLB 15 So. Cal. rSr 6-3 257 5 172 Kasim Edebali OLB 16 Bos. Coll. Sr 6-2 248 5-6 188 Denicos Allen OLB 17 Mich. State rSr 5-11 218 5-6 189 Howard Jones OLB 18 Shepherd rSr 6-2 229 5-6 204 Kevin Pierre-Louis OLB 19 Bos. Coll. Sr 6-0 222 6 210 Jonathan Brown OLB 20 Illinois Sr 6-1 224 6 215 Tyler Starr OLB 21 S.Dakota Sr 6-4 249 6-7 221 Derrell Johnson OLB 22 E. Carolina Sr 6-1 248 6-7 245 Jonathan NewsomeOLB 23 Ball State rSr 6-2 236 7 262 Jayrone Elliott OLB 24 Toledo Sr 6-3 240 7-FA 273 Brad Daly OLB 25 Montana St Sr 6-1 239 7-FA Beasley stayed in school, I believe. Shazier, Telvin Smith, Denicos Allen, & Pierre-Louis are obviously 4-3 OLB prospects. I know that Rex prefers his OLBs to be in the 260 lb range, and if he sticks to that, it could rule many of these guys out. I believe that the Jets interviewed Starr and I think Tripp at the Sr. Bowl. I know that Barr & Mack are the top two OLB prospects, with perhaps Dee Ford closing fast. Kyle Van Noy supposedly is excellent both vs the run and dropping into coverage, but may not be the pass rusher the others are. I think Christian Jones is seen more as an ILB prospect. Attaochu was a hot name at the Sr. Bowl. Other than that, I don't know anything about Murphy, Powell, Reilly, Bradford or any of the other OLBs. I also don't see Alabama's C.J. Moseley's name on either list. Is he seen more as an ILB, or did he stay in school? What do you guys know about any of the other OLB prospects?
I saw one mock draft tonight that has Shazier going to the Jets. That makes no sense at all, He weighs 218 I think. Waaaaaaay too light for a LB in a 3-4 alignment. That's more of a SS weight than LB weight in a 3-4. Even though the Jets mix in 4-3, I just don't see him having a spot on the Jets.
Frankly, I don't see what's up with this 'weight' issue. While I am not saying that "smaller and faster is better" (that's Dungy's defense) saying "such and such is less than 260 so he's out" makes no sense to me either. Seriously, if you are an offensive lineman, why would you fear an outside linebacker? He is at least 30 lbs lighter than you. When push comes to shove, it's more than likely that you will pancake him if you so wish. What scares OL the most is the speed of the OLB, not the weight OR strength of them. That applies to both rush and pass situation. Especially when they have to worry about strong and fast DL as talented as that of Jets, OLB is at best a secondary concern. For that reason, I find most of the OLB prospects very promising. If at all, there are three things you just cannot coach. You cannot coach fast; you cannot coach big, and you cannot coach smart. Of them all, smart is the most important - especially for LBs. I'd think KVN may last deep into 2nd - Telvin Smith maybe onto 3rd. If the said prospect is taller than 6' 3", I'm fine with the pick. As long as the kid is fast, smart and taller than 6' 3", I am inclined to think he has everything he needs to be a successful OLB at NFL [especially if he had his share of success as an OLB in a good college program.] P.S. I didn't clarify myself so I'll be clear here. I am specifically looking at KVN, Adrian Hubbard, Jeremiah Attaochu and Telvin Smith. If Jets can come away with any of the two in the list [which I think is very possible if they intend to do it] I'd really love it.
Prince Shembo out of Notre Dame is a bit on the short side, but is actually close to 260 and is built like an ox. He's looked dominant in some games, but disappears at others. He played a lot with his hand on the ground, is a decent pass rusher and sets the edge well. Sometimes struggles in coverage. Definitely worth a look in the later rounds.
I'm not sure if I misunderstood you, but I really don't want to take two OLBs in our first five picks. We already have Coples as a long-term starter at one of our OLB spots, and have Pace/Barnes at the other spot. I'd be happy with one OLB (whether that comes in the 1st or the 3rd round is of no object, just go BPA), and one ILB. We really need an ILB. Harris is falling and falling fast.
1. I see Q as a DE, not an OLB. He weighs over 290 if anything - you can't move at full speed for 60 minutes at that weight. It would be better if he goes back to DE - Jets do need a stable rotation of DEs anyway. 2. Barnes is coming off ACL surgery, and Pace is another old option. You do not want them taking significant chunk of play time any more. 3. I agree Jets need ILB too.
Q should be a DE but he is a first round pick and we have Richardson and Wilkerson best thing would be switching to 4-3. 4 first round picks on the DL
Don't forget about Dee Ford as a possible OLB prospect, even though he played DE in college. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90778&draftyear=2014&genpos=OLB I see that the OP did include Dee Ford ... my bad.
Rex loves edge players that are big enough to set the edge as well as flex into DE. He also likes long arms & wingspan. Dont rule out a similar athlete to coples ie more of an undersized DL with the length to eventually move to olb
And that's one of the reasons why I despise Rex. I think in this regard, he's a moron. Lighter players can set the edge too, and are more effective in getting to and stopping RBs, pressuring the QB, and even dropping into coverage, what they're designed to do in a 3-4 alignment. IMO it's an inherent flaw in Rex's thinking and one of the key reasons why I think the Jets will never win a SB with him as HC. It's just another example of the Jets having a HC or GM who thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and yet, always proves to be dumber than everyone else.
His defense is designed to be able to run multiple fronts, and each position in the front seven needs to be able and play more than one, or even two positions. His OLB's need to be able to drop into a 3 point stance and play DE. His DE's HAVE to be able to slide inside and play DT, and his ILB's have to be able to slide out to OLB and rush the passer on occasion. Having a 230lb LBer in that defense limits this, but I will point out that Rex said he would have NEVER traded Jonathon Vilma, and would have designed his defense to use Vilma's strengths. My opinion, but I think your dead wrong.
This. The Jets pass rush is still in need of a true edge rusher. Coples and Pace are decent pass rushers, nothing more. Rex hasn't drafted a good rush end yet. That would make this D Line unstoppable.
Obviously weight isnt everything, but Telvin Smith isnt going to play 3-4 OLB in the NFL. He's not even 220. When was the last time a 3-4 OLB has played at that weight? Maybin was tall and fast/explosive, but was only 235 (still 15-20 pounds heavier than Smith) and he didnt make it. Not only do I doubt that he can set the edge, but I also highly doubt he'd be able to hold up in the trenches. I think teams arent even fully convinced that he can play 4-3 OLB, let alone 3-4 OLB.
And you are not the only one. I am afraid this is about as good as it is going to get however - especially, if his treatment of LBs in his 46 book is any indication. From the way I see it, Jets D will be always soft in the second line - their LBs just cannot get to the ball quick enough. They have to be big and massive first before they can move. [I really don't follow this logic.] As for LBs flexing in DL - yes, that CAN be done with 240 LB OLBs - they may not be lining up with their hands on the dirt in the tackle box, but then that's not how you utilize your LBs either. Ryan surely knows how to make things work with his given personnel, but the top defenses last year weren't really built on brawn. Seattle surely wasn't built on that premise. Neither was SF defense. [And I am just giving you an example.] I am thinking, maybe it's about time Rex thought about his usage of his LBs again. So, OLB prospect coming out of college will play at that weight till the end of his NFL career? That's nonsense too, don't you think? He has the frame to add more muscle [where he can easily add 30+ lbs] and is tall enough. I could be wrong on him - it is always a possibility - but I still think, with his frame and his mobility, he can have successful NFL career as an OLB. [I have to admit, I frowned when I looked at his weight too.] If anything, he'd be a worth the gamble at 5th round or lower. P.S. Weight is not the sole predictor of how well one holds up in the trench; how sound his technique is will be instead. P.S. 2: If I could have it my way, I'd be looking at these things: 1. Smart. 2. Quick enough. [Change of direction is more important than 40 yard time.] 3. Tall enough. [6' 3" + is good enough.] 4. Heavy enough, but NOT TOO HEAVY. [I'd say 240 ~ 265 is about my ideal range.]
That's fine. I never thought everyone would agree with me, but I appreciate your being civil. In fact, I'm surprised that two people have already agreed with me. I expected to be flamed, because I know most Jets fans love Rex. I COULD be wrong about this issue, but I don't think so. Below is my reasoning why. There are situations where the flexibility to play different fronts helps, but just I also think there are situations where it hurts. Ever hear of the old saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none"? Doing more things may make their jobs more fun and interesting, but I think it also hurts their ability to be better at their base position and responsibilities because their practice time is divided rather than focusing solely on being great and consistent in their base D alignment. Not everyone can be great in any alignment or responsibility, so that puts a GM in the position of trying to find D players who are flexible perhaps rather than great, or they draft a player thinking he will be flexible and then find out he isn't and is one dimensional. The history of the NFL is full of GMs and HCs who try to fit square pegs into round holes and it almost never works. It also means that some players who may be great at their position in a 3-4 alignment, become mediocre when they suddenly switch to a 4-3. How much is really gained then by this "flexibility"? I like the aspect that Rex's thinking is creative and "out of the box," except in this situation, I not only don't think it's effective, I think it actually hurts the team more than it helps. Because it's his and he's so invested in making it work, I don't think he sees the flaws and problems it creates. I think he's too close and subjective about it, and can't step back and see its weaknesses, just as he doesn't seem to see when his "guys" aren't playing well. Many opposing OCs don't seem to have the problem of figuring out the weaknesses/holes in the Jets' D, however. Following are just a couple of examples of what I'm talking about. Pace has never been more than an average player either at 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE. So what if he has flexibility and can play either position, when his play at either his somewhere between below average and slightly above average or average? Who cares when all he does really well is stop the run, and even then, because he is so slow, he misses a ton of plays? I don't think Coples will ever be really effective as an OLB. His best position is DT, not even DE. IMO, his talent is being wasted. The idea of a 290 lb. OLB is absolutely absurd. It's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen from an NFL HC. Put someone like Dee Ford, Barr or Mack behind our DL in a consistent 3-4 D alignment and they would probably be perennial All Pros. The sad thing is that Rex would probably never want them, but even if he did, he'd expect them to put on 25-35 pounds and ruin their effectiveness (speed). It's even sadder because with Rex's passion and creativity, if Rex would just temper his mad scientist routine, change some of his notions and add some discipline and accountability, he could probably be one of the greatest defensive coaches, if not Head Coaches in NFL history. I don't think he will get there, however, unless Idzik is somehow able to get through to him.
