The difference between Indy 06 and some of his other teams is that his team helped picked him up. He wasn't great in 06 but he wasn't all that bad either in those games? Besides, he played a pretty solid championship game and SB that year. We give much more credit to guys who do much less. The majority of Peyton's teams are built soley around him. So when he plays poorly they lose. He has to always be on top of his game 90% of the time. That's why that team all of a sudden became a 2 win team when he was knocked out for the year. Peyton has also said some all time great playoff games. So he has been very good in the playoffs at times. Hell, the guy went 2-1 in the playoffs this year.....but I understand that whenever Peyton doesn't win the SB it's a bad year for him.
Yeah looking at all the Colts teams, the one team that was TRULY the best team in the league was the 05 team. I didnt really watch prior to 05 but since then the only other team that was the best was possibly the 2009 team. But even if they did win it in 2005, whose to say they repeat?
the '11 Colts quit, that team had talent. a year later they won 11 games. they brought in a 40+ yr old QB off his coucah late in preseason and he became the starter. a year before peyton in Denver Tim Tebow won a playoff game. He has had some good player games, so has ARod but he will always have the clunker. In 2006 the D was great and Peyton only needed one great half. In other years the D has been fine but Peyton has gagged. We don't need to see regular season, record breaking Peyton but make some damn plays and stop making the big mistake. If you look at their playoff losses he's the primary culprit in about 80% of them.
Rickey Jackson Dallas had the edge but the teams were close, very similar. On O HOF QBs, excellent RBs, big time TEs, great #1 WRs. The way I talk about Peyton now is the way I used to talk about Young when he was playing. Great reg season QB, mediocre postseason QB.
Rickey Jackson no wonder I didn't remember....he's not a hall of famer because of his last two years in SF come on that's a BS point and you know it. Young wasn't handed the Walsh Niners those teams were long gone by the time he became a full-time starter. He went 1-2 against a stacked Dallas team in NFC Title games and would have obviously beaten the AFC teams in the SB. That's more than good. That's not a choker. Losing to those Cowboys teams doesn't take away from how good he was. And Aikman wasn't a great postseason QB he was a good QB on a great team aided by a dominant running game. Young never had Emmitt or Erik Williams and Larry Allen. Pre car accident Williams was probably the best lineman in football.
he was a starter on those teams and had almost 10 sacks in his last year of 1995. Young took over after SF lost the title game to NYG in 1990. had 4 of 5 OL back Rathman back Rice/Taylor back Jones back the differences on O were getting rid of Craig, Montana and Bubba Paris. replaced Montana w/ HOFer Young, Paris w/ Harris Barton(PB player) and Craig w/ Watters(eventually). defensively they lost an aging Lott but would get Merton hanks. The big loss was Haley going from SF to Dallas. That swayed the balance of power but SF still had more than enough to be able to compete w/ Dallas. The difference in the teams was play at QB in January. Young had Rice, Waters, Jones and a great OL. No OL individually as good as Williams(or later Larry Allen) but as a group they were outstanding.
None of this points to Young being an underachiever....he lost to a better team. They didn't start suddenly missing the postseason once Young took over. The team just wasn't as good as the Montana ones. He was awesome in 1994 and won the SB and coincidentally enough Aikman threw 3 INT's in that title game. There's absolutely zero shame in losing to those Cowboys teams the two years prior....and as you;ve already pointed out JJ was a better coach than Siefert. the 95 team was the beginning of way less talented Niners teams...Watters left, Young started getting hurt etc
He was a great player, but the truth is he had his playoff struggles when up against great Ds, notable anytime he ran into the Giants Ds. Against the best D he probably ever faced in the postseason, the '86 Giants, who were pretty dominant, the Niners lost 49-3 and Montana threw for under 100 yards and 2 INTs. The year prior he also only managed 3 points in the playoffs against a similar, but somewhat lesser, '85 Giants D. He ran into another great Giants D in '91. Joe threw for under 200 yards and the Niners scored 13 points in a loss. He may have gotten injured badly late in that game, although I'm forgetting exactly what happened. Certainly there isn't much bad in his postseason resume, though he played the '84 Giants and ' 84 Bears the year the Niners won the SB and Montana managed a pedestrian 4 TDs, 5 INTs in those 2 games. He's been elevated to myth beyond reproach, but the reality is, the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, and 2013 Seahawks would have eaten Montana alive. There's nothing about him physically or even mobility-wise that would have made those great Ds scared to play him (average arm, not very mobile), other than that he was in a great offensive system, had the greatest WR of all-time for much of his career, and played on overall strong pre-salary cap teams. I can see the strong arguments for him as GOAT though, considering the overall resume.
Exactly....a lot of these guys with multiple SB's have as much to do with circumstance as it does mythical greatness.
1991- couldn't make playoffs 1992- lost title game at home 1993- lost title game on road 1994- won SB thanks to JJs divorce 1995- lost div rd at home 1996- lost div rd 1997- lost title game at home should have won 2-3 SBs w/ the team he inherited, he was a complete failure in TB. Went to a ready made team to win and failed. he did get knocked out early in that NYG game in 1986 and he did beat NYG in 1981 and 1984 en route to SB titles. Led O to 23 pts against great Bears D in 1984 he did leave late in the 1990 title game, they had the lead when he left though it is not Young's fault Craig fumbled trying to run out the clock. NYG did the best job against him w/o a doubt. I don't think those great Giant Ds get enough credit for how great they were, I think they got lost b/c they were in the same era as the '85 Bears.
Much of Montana's myth comes from the excellent SB track record (11 TDs, 0 INTs and 4-0), but let's not forget the NFC was by far the dominant conference in the '80s and '90s and Montana was not playing juggernaut or even good (in the case of the Broncos that one year) teams in that round. If you look at Peyton and Montana's numbers in postseason play, Montana's are really only slightly better, certainly not enough to the point where you would say, "WOW, MONTANA IS DOMINATING THE POSTSEASON AND PEYTON IS CHOKING AND FALLING APART." Narratives get written for players based on teams they played on and how successful the teams were in the regular season and playoffs, and Montana was sure on some pre-salary cap great ones. Credit to him though, he was a hell of a player and took advantage of the coach, WR, and strong teams he was granted. Clearly one of the best of all-time.
Pretty much- I suppose Montana "choked" from 1985-1987. junc has an interesting take on the game to say the least...unless you have 9 SB's you were a failure. If you lost to a better team- failure. Unless you are Joe Montana or Tom Brady...we don't talk about their failures. And fwiw Montana and Brady are both in my top 5 all time
His first 2 SB wins were not in the dominant AFC era. He won in 1981 and 1984, the AFC won 4 of the previous 6 SBs including the year before 38-9. In those first 2 SBs(w/o Jerry Rice by the way) he threw 4 TDs w/ 0 INTs. Let us also not forget that Montana went to KC in 1993. From 1970-1992 KC won ONE playoff game, w/ Joe they won 2 and made the title game. Since Joe left following the 1994 season they have yet to win another playoff game. Please don't ever compare Peyton to Montana again. Montana had WON TWO SBs already and people forget he had a career threatening injury in '86/'87. he missed a lot of games but when he got healthy he won 2 more SBs. It's not about just winning SBs, I judge more based on if I think they had a SB caliber team around them. peyton has pretty much since day 1, Young did and combined they have 2 SB wins when they should have 5-6 combined. You like meaningless fantasy #s, I like helping teams win.
Did those Aikman Cowboy teams have a SB caliber team around him? You realize only one team can win right? Young didn't help his team win?
if he should have won 2-3 Super Bowls, which of those Champions don't deserve the applaud and recognition for those championships? because you can't condemn a player for not winning when they should have and then applaud a team for winning when they shouldn't have. the two go hand in hand.
Aaron Rodgers in playoff losses has led his Os to 27.3PPG Peyton Manning in playoff losses has led his Os to 14.3 PPG see any differences?
