Yes, if Teddy was a bust, Idzik would look like the biggest moron of all time in the NFL. OTOH, if Teddy turns out to be anywhere near as good as it appears he will be, then the Jets would be a perennial playoff team, and if Idzik (after winning the NFL Exec. of the Year Award) added some more offensive talent in the next couple of drafts, plus another DE, the Jets could win several SBs and Idzik be hailed as one of the greatest GMs of all time, while Mo was having a very good to great career elsewhere, and quite likely never winning a SB. Great 3-4 DEs don't win Divisional Championships, AFC Championships or Lombardi Trophies for a team by themselves, but a great, franchise-caliber QB almost can. Look at Brady and what Rodgers has done with a mediocre defense in GB. Hardly anyone even thought Aaron Rodgers would amount to anything in the NFL. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees. You pay a big price to get one (either by sucking for an entire season, or by paying a high cost to move up in the draft). I didn't expect everyone to agree with the trade up. As I said, I'm almost never for trading up. It's just that Teddy is that good. I never thought Idzik would make such a big move or trade up, nor do I think he would get the chance anyway. There's no way the Texans will pass up on Teddy if they have any sense at all. Add Teddy to that roster, and if they have any kind of CS at all, you might as well go ahead and pencil the Texans in for 3-4 SBs wins in the next 5-8 years.
I understand and respect your position on this. It's a pity you can't understand and respect ours. It's precisely because Mo is one of the top players in the game that the Jets might be able to trade him (if Idzik were so inclined, which I'm sure he's not) to move up to take Teddy without having to give up a boatload of high draft picks. In some ways, trading Mo for a #1 pick, even with the chance to draft a potentially great franchise-caliber QB, ought to bring back another draft pick or two in return. The bottom line is that the Texans, of all teams have no need for Mo. They have Watt. What they need desperately is a quality QB. Give them that and they'll be practically unbeatable as long as their key players stay healthy.
1. I agree wholeheartedly. Trading the cornerstone of the defense for the next decade for a QB prospect? That's human stupidity at its best. Probably that's why people these days still buy lottery tickets. 2. Trading up is a very risky business. We all know Tom Brady doesn't happen every draft, but it SHOULD give you a good reason not to trade picks away - even the 6th. Sure. 1st round prospects have higher chance to be a legitimate starters in the NFL. That's the word - chance. Your goal in EVERY draft is to maximize that chance. Trading up flies in the face of this logic - with the exception of sure-fire prospect that turns out to be a solid superstar. You don't know if that will happen or not at the time of draft anyway. Trading the farm for that one kid is a recipe for a disaster. It comes out okay if and only if he turns out to be worth the price. If not - you set the entire franchise back for at least one full year.
I'm not sure it comes out to be ok even if the guy turns out to be what he was advertised to be. Look at what the big trade ups have been. 1. Michael Vick to Atlanta. They spun their wheels for years after that deal and only became a good team after finding their QB naturally. 2. Eli Manning to the Giants. This turned out to be a good move because of the two Super Bowl wins but it's the luckiest good move of all time. The Giants have never been great with Eli, just good enough to get hot and win a couple of times. Coughlin has missed the playoffs in half the years he has had Eli and has not won a playoff game outside the two SB runs. 3. RGIII. Disaster due to RGIII getting hurt. I'm leaving out the Sanchez trade up because the Jets gave up depth more than anything else to get him. Still it was a disaster after the first couple of years because the Jets had no depth. Really the answer is that if you trade up for a QB in a big way the odds are he won't make it big because there won't be enough talent around him. As to other big trade ups in the 1st round: Ricky Williams to the Saints. Disaster. Julio Jones to the Falcons. Good results, injury, disaster. It's hard to find a case where a team put all it's eggs in one basket and came away smiling. That's because as important as the QB is football is still a team game and injuries rule the meta game.
How would you guys feel about drafting Fales if he falls to the third? As a work in progress backup, to keep up the search for a potential franchise QB should all go wrong, having Fales and a veteran FA as 2 and 3 QBs if Geno doesn't improve as expected. I'm honestly expecting the worst, but would you mind using a third on a QB?
I like Fales a lot!! taking him in the 3rd or 4th is a lot more appealing to me than taking another QB in the first or second this year. Fales Mettenberger and Murray I want one of them in the 3rd preferably the 4th if one falls.
Spending a mid-rounds pick on a QB would be a good move. The Jets depth chart at QB is very weak right now. One way to fix that is to bring in another young QB to develop. Getting a veteran backup is also a very good move if the Jets want things to go smoothly next year.
Absolutely. Unless Mettenberger or McCarron are still on the board. Then I'd take one of them, but I would have no problem with putting Fales on our squad. _
I really want us to draft another QB. Even if Geno improves drastically we still need the depth. Realistically, here's our options for drafting a QB. - Manziel falls to the teens (Geno having a solid last two games makes this pick less likely) - McCarron in the 2nd - Fales, Mettenberger, Murray in the 3rd I would be happy with any of the above scenario's.
Just take the guy who's still there on the Jets 3rd round pick. If a bunch of them fall through maybe wait until the 4th round. There's a lot of good WR talent out there in this draft. Getting a couple of them in the first 3 rounds and adding a free agent would make the position a strength next year instead of the weakness of the last two seasons. Depth Chart Free Agent 1st Round Pick Jeremy Kerley David Nelson 3rd Round Pick That's how you set the table for your QB, whoever he is going to be.
Another nice backpedal. To quote someone off of the main board, if Milliner and Cro could back pedal as well lol. Nice you've come back to the pack on no LATER THAN a third rounder. _
That 3rd round to me is huge. Fales or Mettenberger would be excellent. Geno has been solid the past 2 games - so I guess they will write out any possibility of drafting a QB in the first round. I think Fales is the 2nd most accurate QB in this draft and Mettenberger has the strongest arm. I hope we go into next season with Geno / Shaun Hill (or some vet. Jason Campbell?) / Fales or Mettenberger
Precisely. That kid 1. has better be god damn good - to the point where he can elevate the play level of the entire squad, and 2. has to stay injury-free for at least 4-5 years to make up for the lost draft picks. Ain't happening in normal situations. Trading up is a recipe for a disaster - I have been screaming that from the bottom of my lung for the past half decade - and I STILL see "[we gotta trade the entire draft AND THE FUCKING FARM] for this kid" kind of stupidity all over the board. I have to scratch my head over these. Tannenbaum has been pulling that shit off year in and year out - and now we complain "Where is the talent depth?" Then I see these "We gotta trade up" joke. Are you kidding me? :rofl: ============================================ This is my stance for now - I generally hate seeing WR pick in round 1 [since WR is an outside player; my predisposition would be to select central players] but I wouldn't complain about it if Jets draft WR or TE. [Probably better that way with TE - he can get involved in both passing and running game.] I wouldn't mind Bortles pick if that happens in 2nd round - but god forbid Jets draft him with 1st round pick. That kid is not ready yet. 2nd is about as far as I would go with him, if not lower. If he's not there, Jets should go with WR again. At round 3, if McCarron is there, Jets should grab him. If not, they should go with WR or TE if they didn't get one at Rd. 1.
I've asked a few folks here who know Bortles. I've never seen him so I have to ask. Is he a franchise guy? A potential elite QB? Serious question. _
http://forums.theganggreen.com/showpost.php?p=2917341&postcount=595 This is my scouting report on the kid. You can look up his highlights if you care on youtube, but that won't be necessary. His Knights went 11-1 this season, and are on the bowl berth. If you ask me, I'd tell you yes. And that's an emphatic one. This kid has the size, the arm, the smart, the accuracy and the mobility. He's got really good footwork as well - if you realize that every skill position needs to build from the ground up, you'd understand the significance of this. He's very sound fundamentally [at least as far as the footwork goes], is good at reading the defenses, and is decisive with his throws. Most of all, his demeanor is quite impressive - almost always on even keel, and he commands respect in the huddle; his teammates believes in him. [And he delivered in clutch moments.] Just, he won't be ready for the NFL for the next two years. His throwing motion [especially the arm motion] needs some heavy dose of correction. He should tighten up his wind-up motion, and shouldn't let his arm fall too low while delivering deep ball. [It costs extra split second - and that is the difference between a perfectly delivered pass and a sack more often than not.] So, as for where I stand - I don't mind him one way or the other. If Jets do draft him [Preferably with 2nd] then I am just saying Jets should draft other talents to grow with. And this is my verdict on the kid: if groomed sufficiently, with sufficient talents around, he will be a franchise QB; and a pretty good one at that. If I have to tell you, I am pretty much sick and fed up with these can't-miss QB prospects that have nearly ZERO mental fortitude. I am more or less inclined to that side by now, since I have learned that, in due time, any QB prospect can grow to deliver good enough passes in the league - just, the mental aptitude/fortitude is that much more important. [And not many people seem to emphasize this trait nearly enough.] Also, for that same reason, I do not mind McCarron in later round instead.
It was a rhetorical question. And you've answered it perfectly, but your earlier assertion is inconsistent. Again, for the morons who can't read, I've never seen him and am not condoning picking him in any round. But you, Zach, if you are a GM and there is a guy who you believe is a franchise guy and an elite QB, how do you not run up to Goodell with the card in the first round? I don't get this. A franchise elite QB. Yeah let's hope we can get him in the second round. Makes no sense. _
Because (1) it's hard to make a final judgement on Geno when his receiving corp is garbage, and (2) there will be future NFL starter QBs that fall out of the 1st round. It's logic like yours that results in, for example, Blaine Gabbert being taken ahead of J.J Watt. I do think we take a QB, but in the 2nd or 3rd where the value makes sense.
Dude (i) I'm not the GM and (ii) a poster who has seen player X has suggested that hypothetically he's an elite franchise QB. I asked a hypothetical question. How do you as a hypothetical GM hypothetically pass on a hypothetical elite franchise QB when the league is hypothetically built around franchise QBs? Btw, love the Blaine Gabbert straw man argument. Nice hypothetical touch. _
