its pretty obvious that there has been a premium put on defense. everything revolves around the defense and that is where rex is a failure. he just like his daddy doesnt at this point understand what a team is. he is only interested in his defense and making that part of the team good. its actually quite amazing how it has worked out. and maybe just maybe rex figures it out one day. i just dont see it happening. build a fucking team, not a top 5 defense. oh wait no not a top 15 defense. while largely ignoring the other 2 sides of the ball.
It really is the product of both. We have a ton of talent up front but they are also misfits. There is not a base scheme that all of our players fit. Rex is important in that he maximizes the talent we have by putting them in the best position to be successful. I don't think there is a coach who can come in and use the players we have as effectively as Rex has. Obviously the offense is a problem, but it is not all in Rex. We've had some really bad coordinators. Marty is the best we've had and if this tandem is allowed to continue, I think they can be a very successful. We just need some offensive talent for Marty to work with.
Getting the talent helps but there's that old mantra that you build close to the ball then out. The jets defensive line is tops in the league right now. Their front 7 is top 10. The offensive line has tons of potential to be good with the pieces there now, it all depends on if Winters can weather the storm and get better. Back to the defense though, Rex has done a great job transforming this defense and getting max ability out of it. When he had revis he could afford to all out blitz a lot more, but mostly to generate pass rush or at least rush the QB into a mistake. Now without Revis and a struggling CB corps, he's had to rely more on his front 3-4 to get that pressure and give his secondary as much help as they can. I feel now the defense finally is getting it together albeit so late. The secondary just never got it together to play at the level the front 7 has. It's important to bring back most of these guys next year. I think the Jets should bring back at least 7-8 starters with maybe an addition in the secondary, another LB and DLine guy.
It's also probably bullshit for two reasons. 1) The defense isn't that good anyway WITH Rex. 2) There's no reason a DC with 34 expertise couldn't work with all the talent we have in the front 7, especially if Dunbar were still in the mix. Using phrases like "misfit toys" makes for good dramatic effect but in reality we have excellent talent for a 34 front. Wilkerson and Richardson are blue chip stud 34 DE's and both harrison and ellis can hold there own at NT. Coples is turning into a solid OLB and the ILB duo is above average 34 talent.
The first part of your post is comical, if you think that Rex's defense isn't that good in any of the five years he's been here, your high. What argument do you have to make a statement like that? Makes no sense. The second part of your post all but confirms to me that you don't have a very strong understanding of defense in general. Do you really think the 3-4 is our primary defense? Especially this season? It hasn't been used all that often at all, hell we've used more 4-3 alignments than 3-4 this year. You should go look at that. There is a BIG reason we haven't used much 3-4, and it's because we don't have the best pieces for the 3-4 at the moment.
This year in particular the D has been leaky but 11th being the lowest of his career, and 5 new starters, and offense going 3 and out (most in NFL), Ill give RR the benefit of doubt on D moving forward. I would like to retain staff, have MM acquire Maclin, 1st rd WR, TE and maybe address the secondary in time. Fuck NE.
AKA - Denver Broncs, that works if you have a P Manning or Brady. I really like MM and can't wait to see what happens next season with an influx of new offensive toys. This first season for Idzek, Ryan and Marty has had its ups and downs, but I think we can call it a success, given largely what the offense doesn't have. If I'm Woody I'm happy with the progress thats been made, but also cautious about the upcoming draft and FA. NO rushing this rebuild, no huge contracts for older stars coming to us by way of FA. Invest in the scouting team and with new director of scouting Jeff Bauer now replacing Joey Clinkscales (who I didn't have much time for) and now draft sensibly . After the 2014 season finishes we will all know how far we've come or need to go. But for now I hope that RR and MM remain in situ.
These two. The fact that (A) we have the #11 defense despite blowing up the safety position and having the most 3 and outs in the NFL is quite impressive. They certainly haven't played perfect, but it's hard to argue they haven't been playing at a high level. Consider that we're 7-8 in what was supposed to be a rebuilding year, with a rookie quarterback. We have an equal record with the Steelers and a better record than the Giants, the Packers, the Texans, and the Falcons--all teams that are usually contenders. This team is not very good, but if you listened to the people on this site you would think we haven't won a game all year.
I think this question actually touches another topic which goes beyond Rex and covers the NFL in general. What impact does the coaching staff have in developing young talent? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_England_Patriots_first-round_draft_picks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Orleans_Saints_first-round_draft_picks Both the Saints & Pats have been spending the majority of their first rounders on defense. Yet they both have offenses which are far superior than D. Neither team has had a defense good enough to be considered tops in the league (although Saints D improved big time this season under Rob Ryan). For both teams, if the offense ever sputtered, their D isn't going to carry them far. Rex has had very good defensive prospects, but he's successfully turned them into productive players. That can't be said for other head coaches. There's no way we can safely assume that ANY head coach would have turned these same prospects into solid players. The talent acquired + Rex both enhance each other. Defensively, Rex is much more than some placeholder coach who gets lucky from receiving can't-miss-talent on the defensive side. He's shown the ability to develop defensive prospects regardless of where they're drafted. DeMario Davis is a productive 3rd round pick. Antonio Allen is very productive considering where he's been drafted. UDFA defensive players also produce under Rex. Cro had the best year of his career under Rex. Revis was playing at the HOF level under Rex also. Mo-Wilk isn't some obvious defensive stud like Clowney who everybody is looking as top-3 pick. Sheldon Richardson was considered not worth the value by many "experts" where Jets grabbed him. ====== The same way Rex deserves credit for turning out defensive studs, he deserves blame for the offensive failures under his regime. Except for Kerley and Slauson, the Jets regime have not overachieved on any offensive picks. The one time they had a potential UDFA on the offensive side with potential, they cut him to keep McKnight (who also failed to develop under Rex). Sometimes, I'll read posts on how the Jets let Danny Woodhead go. But I really believe Danny Woodhead amounts to a marginal NFL player if he was forced to develop under Rex. When Rex had Shotty, we all blamed Shotty for offensive woes. It was Shotty's fault we run that stupid Wildcat Offense. It was Shotty holding back Sanchez development. It was Shotty's fault for the shit playcalling and Jets going to extreme ultra-conservative approach. Then Shotty left and there were so much happiness that now Rex has the opportunity to hire HIS GUY. Dolphins posters came onto our forums and unanimously said he sucks & we'll regret it. Plenty of Jets posters told them to buzz off and Rex is awesome. Jets fans-> "LOL Dolphins fans, we didn't hire him to be a HC like you idiots. We're much smarter and only gave him OC role which he can thrive in. " Sparano made Shotty like Bill Walsh. In 2013, this Rex was gonna be different. He's hired a PROVEN offensive mind. A guy who has a reputation for developing talent on the offensive side and developing QBs. This Marty Mornhinweg was supposed to be better than the other OC that failed under Rex. Yet we still run the wildcat. Also, after the bye, Jets went into super conservative mode offensively. This was not the Marty Mornhinweg under Andy Reid. This was Marty Mornhinweg under Rex Ryan and he doesn't look so hot. === This defense is a lot more than some good picks and Rex Ryan has greatly contributed to this defenses success. However, this offense's dismal performances is also Rex's fault. Stop blaming all the OC and GM. The big question for the Jets is: Do you think Rex will ever put it together offensively? If the answer is No, then need to get rid of him. Stop asking for different OC. Under Rex, all offensive coordinators will run Wildcat & get conservative in big pressure situations. They will all play "not-to-lose" waiting for the defense and special teams to win the game. Now if you do feel that Rex can put it together offensively, then you must stick with him. However, the bye from this season showed us Rex hasn't changed at all. Offense was shutdown as Rex forced them into ultra-conservative mode. His rookie QB's development was regressing. This wasn't supposed to happen under a new and improved OC. Yet it did.
first of all, since youre universally known as one of the most retarded psters on the board, you should probably not be name-calling. Secondly, the original question is whether its the draft ( the players) or the coach( RR). My response was very much on topic. You fuckin retard
What we need to remember about the Sparano experiment, is that we tried to get Todd Haley in as well as a packaged deal that failed.
I never said anything about "any of the five years". I'm talking about the present, not 4-5 years ago. The 2013 Jets defense is average with the exception of stopping the run. I would expect with Karl Dunbar and 12 first round picks on the d-line. Did I ever say the 34 is our primary defense? I said we have great personnel for it and we do. Rex is a multi-front DC, so I wouldn't expect him to stick with one front. Please explain how we do not have excellent 34 talent.
The Jets actually threw in high pressure situations for better or for worse. Against NE down by 3, threw in the second game and ended in a Geno INT. Against TAM with 2 minute and 3rd and 4, we attempted to throw with Geno to get the first to end the game. With 3 minutes left up 7 on BUF we tried to throw on 2nd and 3rd down to end the game. 4th quarter up 6 with 5-6 minutes left, we tried to throw on 2nd and 3rd down to pickup the first and milk the clock. With 2 minutes left up 3 on NE, tried passing on 2nd and 3rd down to end the game. 2:11 left against NO, tried to pass on 3rd down. Up 4 on cleveland with 3:30 left, passing play that Geno scrambled in on to ice it. In all scenarios I listed, the Jets could have played safe and settled for either 3 with a run or the safe burn clock/force a TO with a run to try and win the game. The put the ball in Geno's hands for better or worse. Overall though, the Jets have been conservative in letting Geno throw. He ranked 19th in the league, although it's interesting to note Cam is 18th, Wilson is 20th, and Kap 21st, so 3 great teams this year are right near the Jets/Geno. The conservative play, whether it be coincidence or the Kerley effect, happened starting in NO and went until the OAK game where they passing attempts rose to pre NO game averages. Maybe these aren't the high pressure situations you mean, but I didn't want to include when we were down late in the game like ATL or TB where you are forced to throw the ball, there is no option of going conservative.
and yet the defenses were at their best shortly after he first arrived and before any rookies would have had a chance to really contribute - so how exactly is it down to the drafts? what the Jets need is what they have never had - a top tier QB - and sadly that is not a quick fix its pretty much down to luck and being terrible at the right time - and no coach is going to make it happen or make any difference in that regard.
The defense was at its best when we had an offense that ran the ball well and controlled the clock. Not a difficult thing to appreciate.
I'm not mad the Jets have used the higher draft picks to bolster the defese, regardless of who the HC is. A perennial top defense is much harder to build than a top offense. A top defense that can actually slow down and/or stop teams in their tracks game after game requires 11 above avg men on the field at all times. A single weak link on defense can easily be exploited all game long (like a MLB who is old and can't cover TEs or the slot receiver, or cover the flat. Or like a DB who can't turn his head around and constantly gives up long passes or is flagged for pass interference). A strong, dominant defense takes 3-4 years of solid drafting and solid coaching to build. But a top offense can be built with one solid draft. You only need 2-3 top skill players on offense (or just 1 in NEs case) to be a top offense. Think of the defense as a drag net stretched across the entire field and the offense as a hot knife in the hands of one or two skill players.
A strong defense is what beat Tom Brady in his last two SBs and a strong defense is what knocked Brady out of the playoffs in between. Teams with a top offense can be hot and cold. If they get clicking early, they can dominate. But if they struggle early against a good defense, they can ALWAYS be beaten on any Sunday. Playing in the North East in an open stadium I would prefer a dominate defense #1, a solid O-Line and running game #2, and good QB/WR/TE #3. We might not win 10 SBs in a row, but we'll get damn close to a lot of them and our team will be far more fun to watch.
A team like NE with no defense is not much fun to watch. When Brady is on the bench, the entire fan base goes to the kitchen to make a sandwich, goes to the shitter to pinch a Brady, or goes to the concession stand to buy another Ultra Light beer. But even at 7-8, the Jets fan base stays glued to the tube for both sides of the ball. The way it should be. Go defense!
OK, time to help some very short sighted people out here: Rex's first draft in 2009 was entirely spent on offense with Sanchez, Greene, and Slauson. We also happened to Trade for Braylon Edwards during that season. In 2010 our first pick was Kyle Wilson, the last three? All offense with Vlad, McKnight, and Connor. At this point Rex has spent 6 picks on offense and one on defense. We have now also traded for a second vet receiver in Holmes and replaced Thomas Jones with a better option out of the backfield on passing downs in Tomlinson. 2011 Our first and third round pick go to defense our last 4 picks are spent on offense. Now at 10 offensive picks to 4 defensive. We acquired two contributors in those picks in Powell and Kerley. We bring in aging vets to try and round out a roster that has made back to back AFC champion ship games in Burress and Mason. These moves fizzle badly. 2012 with 8 picks we go 4 defensive and 4 offensive players. now have drafted 14 offensive players and 8 defensive player in the Rex Era. The down side here is none of these four have yet to make much of an impact with Hill being a colossal bust to this point. With the aging vets gone every where and big contracts keeping us from moving on in the free agent market the roster takes a nose dive in talent. 2013 the start of the Idzik drafts. First two picks spent on defense final 5 on offense. We have now spent 19 picks on offense and 10 on defense since Rex joined the team. Free agent signings and trades have included Edwards, Holmes, Buress, Mason and Tomlinson. We have drafted two QB's with starting potential including spending the highest pick we have acquired in his tenure on a QB in a move that cost two picks and 3 players. These years were not marked by ignoring the offense, but by missing on picks and not being able to replace vets due to bad cap management. Anyone who things we have ignored the offense is not paying attention, ignoring facts to advance an agenda, or just plain old fucking stupid.
Excellent post. Now the real debate is why did the defensive picks pan out? Is it because Rex is better and predicting defensive talent? Is it because these players have been coached better to reach potential? Does it have nothing to do with Rex or everything to do with Rex? Why did the offensive picks bust or not develop? Is it because of poor scouting? Is it because they have been poorly coached and developed? Did Rex have any hand in any or all of the picks? We will never know the true extent to these questions. Some people want to give Rex all the credit for defensive successes and none of the blame for the offensive wows. Others will give Rex more credit/blame than he deserves for both sides, while some will excuse Rex and think he has no part in drafting and they are just bad/good picks and it has nothing to do with coaching and developing.
