What is Your Final Vote on Rex Ryan?

Rex gives this team that swagger.. they play with a big chip on their shoulder with rex u can tell they wanna play for him.. hell go read every jets article right now its players simping about how bad they want rex here.. all 52 of those players love rex there... that says alot more about Rex than what any of us can type in a forum.. if he was some lame duck coach like some of u are making him out to be then im sure they would just be silent, they dont HAVE to low-key beg for Rex but they are.. because they know He's the guy!

 

You know what? Let me tell you what I see:

1. Jets defensive performance - how much of it is Ryan and how much of it is the personnel?

I gotta tell ya, folks. This defense was never built to be dominant during the past five years. It had a chance to be special back in 2009, if Jenkins could stay healthy the whole year. [He went down in October.]

This defense lacked speed and that 'pow!' factor from the LBs and safeties for the past half decade. Look at the names. Bryan Thomases, Calvin Paces and Eric Smiths won't scare anybody.

First three seasons, Rex made it work with fearsome CBs. Last year probably was Cro's swansong season. This season, Rex has kickass DL. But know this. This defense was NEVER stout at OLBs and FS/SS.

2. And Jets didn't even draft quality prospects in that spot for the past five years. Josh Bush and Antonio Allen were both 6th round picks. OLBs? Who did they draft? I fail to remember a single name.

3. If I had to guess, I'd say not a single soul in the NFL coaching brass can get as much defensive production out of this crew as Rex Ryan could. Walsh will tell you just that - you need to have good players all across the board to have a strong defense. Ryan never had that. It's always one unit being exceptionally good, then the rest near average or below. It's been that way for the past five years. What changes is which crew excels - but the composition [One unit excelling - rest sucking hard] still remains the same.

4. Then there is this 'other side of the ball' problem. Probably Ryan is completely clueless about the offense. But the key factor for the past two seasons was the cap space. Of course Jets offense is nearly filled with donkeys - that doesn't help. Now Jets were rewarding donkeys for sucking, with unreasonable monster constracts. That shouldn't be on Ryan - or should it?

5. Think of it this way. I don't know how well-versed John Idzik is in terms of GM responsibilities, but he surely doesn't look like that clueless retard T-Bomb. I'd like to think that Ryan should be given the benefit of doubt to work with a 'real' GM and a 'real' OC. Or am I wrong on this too?

 

And why am I supposed to believe thatll happen under Rex?...

 

This may just be me, but if Rex is the defensive super-guru that he's supposed to be, this defense should be playing better than it is. Personally, I dont see it as "excelling". Yes, the run defense is outstanding, but our pass defense is piss poor- 26th in the league. Id like to say our run defense is outstanding because of the personnel. Personally, I think Wilkerson, Richardson, Harrison and Coples would succeed on other teams as well simply due to their talent- 3/4 were 1st round prospects.

Also, its certainly not encouraging seeing our defensive guru being taken to town by the likes of Jake Locker, EJ Manuel, Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton. He's supposed to feast on young QBs, and not be feasted on by them.

I think the highlighted part is the biggest problem with Rex. He may not be completely clueless though. He just hasnt put up a truly capable offense. Rex certainly is a great defensive coach. No doubt about it. I just dont know if its worth the sacrifice on "the other side of the ball" in today's NFL, because there certainly is a give and take with Rex (with the defense usually doing the later).

 

I hope Rex gets one more shot at it, and with a good amount of money to spend we can bring in some good talent to compete with.

He had very good success with a talented team before.

 

you do realize the Jets D has 7 or 8 new starters?
last year they struggled against the run. that has been more than corrected. the pass rush has also improved greatly. The secondary is weak, so teams have adapted and routinely exploit that secondary which features 3 new starters (1 rookie). i don't think Rex has suddenly forgotten how to scheme a pass defense.

In terms of O, i saw in a previous post you think we need an O with a 4000 yd passer with 2:1 TD:INT ratio..
That sounds great and all, but really isn't required.
Unless we get Drew Brees, our O isn't going to become the Saints of the NE, nor does it need to be.
Wilson, Kaep, Newton, Flacco.....None of them will top the 4000 this year.
Big Ben will top it, but interestingly enough, the Steelers are better when he doesn't.

i agree about improving TD:INT ratio, even if it's not quite 2:1.
We need to improve the secondary, strengthen the Oline, get a playmaker or two, and of course find our answer at QB.
Even if you think Rex is clueless on how to upgrade the O, you don't think Marty is capable of assessing what that O needs, and Idzik capable of balancing the teams needs?

I think the right people are in place to determine how to upgrade the team, now they just need to go and get the talent in place.
2014 will be year 2 of the rebuild..

 

I just have no fucking idea what you were reading. That is NOT the message I sent out.

I have shown you how this defense, at the personnel level, does not match up well with other premier defenses. If anything, its OLB and S positions have been glaring weakness for the entire five year duration. When Rex first got to NY, the DL was a fucking mess - and that is corrected. That Revis was a money-whoring bitch made the fixing DL quicker. [And finding Damon Harrison.] When the DL was not up to par, the LB blitz constantly created a gigantic clusterfuck. [Remember how Jets lost against the Colts in 2009? Pace and Cactus were all held up at the LoS, doing absolutely fucking NOTHING.]

So, tell me, how this defense should be doing better. Jets were employing two OLBs converted from DEs. I am very certain I have said things of this tune years ago, even during Mangini era. Jets front looked more like Eagle front with 5-2 alignment than 3-4 we all thought it was. And we all know how Mangini was such a clueless retard with that personnel. [And he had a healthy Kris Jenkins devouring up the middle of the LoS for the full year too.] Rex arrives, and instantly gets production of that unit. Isn't that sufficient evidence for you?

[Just as a reminder: Mangini is not as that big a retard that I make him to be; he turned the Browns defense from 31st in 2009 to 11th in 2010. Rex is clearly better than Mangini. Fair enough? Of course, Cleveland defense didn't have anyone to write home about that year as well.]

Or this defense of this year - other than DL, who do they have that can step up? Ever recall the Herm days? Jets had very suspect secondaries, but two book-end DEs [John Abraham and Shaun Ellis] were generating uncanny pressure from the edge, and the secondaries benefited a lot. Now, this current crop of Jets back four cannot even do that. [Probably Rex sticking to man coverage plays a role, but if QB is pressured enough, he cracks - and that didn't translate to INTs. Speak about the player quality of the back four again.] And you know how Calvin Pace almost got to double digit sack this year for the first time in his entire career. Shouldn't that tell you about the quality of the players at the second level too? [If you have ever been to the draft board, you would have seen me literally SCREAMING OUT for LB picks for some time now.]

 

I consider myself a Pace fan, but it is obvious his sack total has gone up due to the way the DL strips blockers from the Qb's protection. He has also avoided injury this year, and some years in the past he was definitely struggling with injuries.

Despite liking Pace, I don't really think much of the Jet LB's this year. I was all set to see Davis take a big step up, but he's been pretty awful in pass defense, and he's a young guy. I was expecting better coverage from him. Harris is a solid tackler when he gets the chance, but I see just a little less speed from him even though overall he is playing better after last year being a down year. Coples is showing some promise, and may yet live up to his draft status. But I don't really see that moving him to OLB is such a great move. And with McIntyre injured they seem to have no depth at LB.

People talk about the Jet front seven, but I don't think the LB's really impress many people.

 

No doubt about it. I've said before the Jets front 4 is imposing. Yet their front 7 isn't scaring anyone.

They definitely need to upgrade LB with much more speed. David Harris is on the back side of his career. He's too slow even though he's having a solid year. Davis is ok but to me he's too small to be an impact every down LB. Quinton Coples is a D Lineman playing OLB. He's not beating anyone off the edge.

The Jets need a true pass rushing OLB, something they haven't had since Abraham. They also need another MLB.

 

Overall speed is another big factor in addition to lack of an adequate pass rush. Davis does seem to have decent speed in the run D, but overall this is not a fast unit.

 

Rex is responsible for the entire team too. The offense has been anemic for 3 straight years and the defense has gone from dominant at times in 2009 to slightly above average at best in 2013.

But people want "continuity" and "stability". Sounds awesome. Think about what you're asking to continue.

 

Because that's supposed to be Rex's calling card. He's supposed to give us a very good defense. We have spent almost all of our 1st round picks on players for his defense since he's been here and we're left with a defense that's not special.

If we're supposed to deal with a lesser offense because the defense is great then I expect great defense. We don't have it. We have slightly above average defense and a garbage offense.

continue away

 

What you Rex supporters who throw this out there don't get is that of course the players want him here. He's a pushover and a pussy as far as they are concerned. He doesn't punish them, bench them or call them out when their play sucks. He doesn't work them hard. Instead they can yuck it up, have fun playing a game and live in delusions of grandeur. Why wouldn't they love him? Many of today's players don't give a hoot about winning it all. They just want their paycheck and the fame and perks that go along with playing in the NFL. There have been players who didn't like Rex and who have criticized him. Those players are the throwbacks, the ones who are disciplined, tough, and more than anything want to win. They know what it takes to win, and they know that Rex's ways won't work.

 

laxin, just curious: if Idzik cans Rex, who would you see him possibly replacinig him with?

And, do you yourself have any guys you'd like to see (maybe even from the college ranks)? Thoughts? thx

 

The D-line has 2 first round picks and a 3rd round pick who would have been at least a 2nd round pick if not for legal issues. At OLB we have 2 first round picks. At ILB we have a high 2nd round pick and a guy Rex was a part of drafting The secondary has 3 1st round picks at CB, a 2nd round pick at S as well as 2 guys rex was involved with drafting last year and a FA from the Ravens. I'll leave Reed out of it.

For those of you counting that's 7 first round picks (not including Ed Reed), 2 second round picks and a handful of guys Rex was either involved in drafting or helped bring in through FA due to his familiarity with them.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any other team in the NFL with that many former 1st & 2nd round picks on defense. Rex has more than enough talent to work with on defense. I'm sure he'll be pushing for more defense early in the draft if he's still around though.

 

Idzik is not Tanny. The man seems to be a firm believer in best player available. Judging by this years draft class i would be really surprised if our
first 2 rounds did not go to offense and my guess is both will be receivers int he form of a TE/WR

 

haha, i gotta call total BS. Where a player was drafted to another team, at a different time period of their career, is totally irrelevant.

I guess the Jets O was littered with first rounders also, when they had Holmes, Braylon, LT, Sanchez, Mangold, D'brick, Woody, Keller, as well as high round guys like Greene, Ducasse and Cotchery in 2010. That's 8 first rounders, and 3 more high round guys. Offense should have been epic.
Don't forget about 2009 too with T Jones and Faneca in that mix.

 

Response Part 1
You make some good points about the shortcomings of the D personnel, but let me ask you this...Do you not think Rex had any input at all with Tanny as to who to draft? After all, Tanny was a bean counter and attorney. What the heck did he know about football personnel, who had real talent and who didn't, and how to build a roster? He had to rely on his scouts and CS for input. I know he had a huge ego, but I can't imagine that even he had such an ego that he would ignore all that input and just do whatever he wanted to do.

1. If Rex thought the OLB position needed upgrading with more speed and more "pow" ability, do you not think he would have gone to Tanny and Woody and said, I gotta have this? After all he had Terrell Suggs in Baltimore. He knew what such a player could do. As much as Woody loves Rex, he would have ordered Tanny to give Rex what he wanted/needed for his D. There have been numerous opportunities for the Jets to get him an upgrade at OLB in the draft and in FA and as you yourself say, it never happened. I have also seen numerous posts on various Jets boards (by fans mind you) speculating that Rex just didn't value the OLB position, and there some valid reasons to believe that. When Rex first came here, he said that in his version of the 3-4 alignment, he wanted the DBs to rush the passer as they were quicker than LBs. He also said he wanted his OLBs to be around 260-280 lbs. which isn't conducive to their having good speed. Surely, Rex must understand that. So it would seem that he doesn't or at least didn't think that speed at the OLB position was that important.

Further, he said that the primary responsibility of his DEs and OLBs was to hold the point of attack and stop the run, not rush the QB. Because of that, imo his views on the 3-4 have always been off-base. IMO he thought he was smarter than the man who devised the 3-4 alignment, and he isn't. IMO he's more like a mad scientist that occasionally will stumble upon something that will work well for a short period, but not for long, because the thought-processes, research, and basic ideas/concepts are flawed.

2. We have also seen how Rex thinks his safeties should be identical/interchangeable, and their primary responsibility is stopping the run. As you say, over the last 5 years, the only safeties drafted were in the 6th round, when there have been quite a few excellent safeties who have been available in the draft during that period.

Over the last several years, we have seen all the #1 picks go to the DL rather than to the OLB or S position. You have pointed out how from year-to-year, one defensive group will be really strong and others weak, and then that might change within a year or two. Does that not suggest anything to you? It certainly does to me. It suggests that Rex doesn't have a clue on how to build a defense. All his top draft picks on D have gone to the DL and CB position. Why not a balanced approach? Surely he has to recognize what a passing league it is, and that it's more important to be able to stop or at least significantly slow down the pass, than it is the run.

Another thing he said when he came here was that sacks weren't all that important, but pressuring the opposing QB and forcing TOs was the goal. I don't think I have to tell you or any of his supporters how bad the Jets have been in creating TOs, particularly interceptions. Why is that? Is he not teaching the players how to recognize routes and then jump them? Do the players not have the ability to recognize routes, the necessary speed or ball skills? If not, why not? If you're going to focus primarily on stopping the run on D, but with other teams passing a lot, then you either need to have a great pass rush or a great, ball-hawking secondary. The Jets have had neither. Even the immortal Revis was not great at getting interceptions. If getting TOs is so important, why was Milliner the CB they drafted? Even though he was the consensus top CB in the draft, he dropped a number of sure interceptions in college and doesn't seem to have very good hands or to be the ball-hawking type, but rather he excels in coverage.

Why haven't the S and OLB positions been addressed? Why hasn't Rex campaigned for a ball-hawking FS?

IMO it's because he doesn't want a ball-hawking FS. It has to be. For the life of me, I can't figure out what goes through his mind. That is why I don't think he is very smart. Yes, he had some innovative blitzes and gimmicks that worked for a while, but almost every one of those things have stopped working except against really bad teams or maybe a team with some rookies in key positions.

3. There are quite a few great DCs in the NFL. Rex is far from being the only good one. Other defensive units are flawed and get the job done. What makes Rex so special?

4. Why hasn't Rex campaigned for better offensive players so the offense can score more points or at least sustain longer drives so the D can stay rested?

The other thing that truly perplexes me is his cluelessness about offense. Now I know that his dad had a disdain for offense, but Rex is supposedly smarter and learned from his dad's mistakes. In order to be able to figure out how to stop an opposing offense, Rex would have to understand how the various offensive systems work and why, what their weaknesses are and what their strengths are. If he pays any attention at all to what other teams are doing, what the scores are or looks at film, he ought to be able to understand how an offense can defeat a defense. It's not rocket science. Again this is why I think his supporters who think he is so smart are wrong. Sometimes I think he is as dumb as a fencepost. If he doesn't see those things it has to be because he doesn't want to see them or is unable to see them because of a lack of mental acuity. There isn't any other possibility that I'm aware of.

In terms of contracts, again, do you think Tanny just operated in a vacuum? Do you not think he consulted with Rex as to who should get paid/extended and who should be allowed to walk, especially concerning defensive players? If so, why were some older, slower players kept around and given such huge contracts? Why were some younger, faster players like Ihedigbo allowed to leave as a FA? It's not like he even cost a lot of money. Granted, he wasn't the solid player when he left that he is now, but why not? Rex is supposed to be so great at developing defensive talent. Ihedigbo was one of their better STs players and perhaps their best blitzer in 2009 and 2010. He was a solid tackler and hard hitter. Could Rex not recognize his ability or just no develop it?

These are the things that bug me about him and why I don't think he's a quality HC or ever will be.