I think the Carolina game will decide whether Ryan stays. So in reality he's already gone since Carolina is an automatic loss. Then we hire a Chip Kelly. Oops. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
The old create and argument that was not made so to provide a witty counter. At least it's slightly better than you are a "Suckchez fan". The hierarchy explained was with regards to the hiring and firing of front office personnel. Woody hires the HC and GM; they in turn hire their respective staffs. It's has absolutely NOTHING to do with coaching and/or player evaluations. Also why is it imperative that the GM, whose primary responsibilities center around player personnel and contract negotiations, hire the HC anyway? If I'm the owner or president of football operations, I just need my HC and GM to work well together. Having one report to the other really doesn't amount to anything. If anything, it's counter productive. A bad GM would be able to fire a good coach to save his own skin.
Suckchez? WTF are you talking about? This is a board about the Jets. While I agree with your point regarding Woody I don't agree that's good for the Jets. Not sure why you are getting snarky about it? Not sure where the Suckhez shit is coming from either? If you like or dislike Sanchez make the argument and if someone responds in disagreement or agreement what's the problem? Isn't that the point. You got a problem with me get over it or put me on ignore. I made my point if you don't agree fine. I think the GM's primary responsibility is having a vision and philosophy of how his football team should look. He should surround himself with coaching staff and scouting team that's on the same page. The Jets owner is not an experienced football President or head of football operations he is a philanthropist. He has no business separating the GM from the coaching staff other then he can because he owns the team.
I totally agree with this. Woody shouldn't even own a professional sports team, much less try to make decisions regarding hires. He's about as clueless as Leon Hess.
Next year will be a rebuild year too. They'll actually have the cap space and draft picks to make major changes next year. If you don't think your HC is the right guy to lead the team forward during that rebuild, then you do fire him. Remember that Idzik wasn't given the option of firing Rex las year. This year Woody may let Idzik do what he thinks best (and he should as he doesn't know anything about football. He hired a professional to run the team, now he needs to step back and let the professional do what he thinks need to be done.).
When did they do this? I have seen/heard no such thing. The only thing I heard was that Woody wouldn't allow whatever GM he hired to fire Rex last year. That's not the same thing as what you're claiming. I'm not doubting you, but if Woody did indeed say that, then he's dumber than I thought. That makes even more sense as to why several of the GM candidates withdrew their names for the Jets' GM job. With that being the case, we're all morons for continuing to root for this team as long as Woody owns it. Damn him.
There's plenty enough context in what I posted for you to get the Suckchez comment. If you don't, like you so eloquently put it "get over it". In the same vein, I thought I explained the reason for my snark when I specifically referenced your own "snarky" response to my initial post simply explaining the Jets' management structure. If you suffer from convenient amnesia, let me remind you. You responded: It's not only "snarky", it had nothing to do with what I wrote kind of like my Suckchez reference to your post. It's ironic symmetry. You point is only valid in a black and white world. Not being officially the one who hires the HC does not mean the GM loses the ability to surround himself with colleagues that are on the same page. Similarly, the owner making the final decision on hiring the HC does not mean he is not soliciting in the process the help of knowledgeable football minds like his GM. Let's pretend for a moment that it was as black and white as you portray it and Woody made his football decisions in a vacuum. Explain why then it would be OK for him to hire the GM but not the HC. In this scenario we would basically be saying that he has just enough football smarts to hire the guy that's hires the guy but not enough to hire them separately. The whole argument is a red herring.
Woody isn't qualified on any football basis to hire the GM or the coaching staff. Woody is rich enough to qualify him to hire anyone he wants for the Jets. Having the power and having the qualifications are not the same thing. Take a look at our cross town co-tenets. The Mara family had the Giants in complete disarray for several decades. The league stepped in and moved one of the league executives to the Giants to run the entire football operations. George Young re-established the entire football operations, coaches, scouting, contracts, etc. It lead to 2 SB in a relatively short time and the re-establishing of the Giants as a first class football operation. Hess failed miserably in his ability to find and assign football personal to the Jets until he stole Parcells from the Pats. Woody's first move as an owner was the botching of the football operations by not securing BB to run the operation. Herm walked out on him and we have been through 6 OC's since Woody took over. Woody isn't qualified to hire any football people. What Woody has is the league who will help him with a Football person or he can go to an outside consultant which he apparently did with Idzik. Granted he is not qualified to hire the head of football operations however when the owner starts separating the GM and the HC he has created a political organization with different loyalties and agenda's. It's a bad move in my opinion. It hasn't served the Jets well. When Werblin gave up Jets ownership, Hess and now Woody have done a pretty poor job of putting a good football man in charge and letting him run the team. Hess finally did it when he decided he wanted to win. It was short lived and we are back to the old way. Woody not being qualified to hire any football personal doesn't mean he should hire all football personal. Getting lucky on the HC while failing on the GM or the other way around isn't going to serve the Jets well over any 5 to 10 year stretch.
I tend to agree with this, but the problem is Woody. If Woody wants Rex back, he will be back no matter what vision Idzik has.
I just disagree on the unqualified thing. Woody Johnson has owned the Jets for 14 years now and they've been fairly successful during that time. They've made the playoffs 6 of the years and won a playoff game or more 4 times. Most teams have done worse over that span. The reason people are dissatisfied with what the Jets have accomplished is that they haven't won a Super Bowl over the last 14 seasons. They join 23 other teams in that distinction. Like every other era in NFL history the Super Bowl has been largely wrapped up by a few teams recently. New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and the Giants have all won 2 or more Super Bowls over that span. That New England has been the strongest team in the NFL over the last 13 years counts against the Jets in most fan's estimation when in fact it should be a point in the Jets favor. They've managed to be competitive a bunch of times despite having the NFL's strongest team in their division over that span of time. That the Giants and Steelers got lucky and had a high pick in the draft the year the QB supply was bounteous was just that, luck. That doesn't reflect on the Jets. they didn't pass on Eli and Big Ben and Rivers they just never had a realistic shot at them. That the Jets franchise QB could not stay healthy doesn't reflect on them much. That's just bad luck. What we've seen out of Woody so far is that he likes defensive coaches and to accumulate talent on that side of the ball. This is a characteristic that has produced championships until recently. It may well produce another one this year. Pete Carroll, Bill Belichik, John Fox and Marvin Lewis are all from that side of the ball, so is Ron Rivera. Seattle, Cincinnati and Carolina have all stockpiled talent on defense in addition to finding their QB, with Carolina taking the traditional "got lucky after having a terrible season" route. If you choose to see Woody Johnson's 14 years of active ownership as a hindrance then you need to make the case for why the Jets results support your position. I think the numbers suggest the opposite but I'm willing to be persuaded if you think the Jets actually had a path to a dynasty by having Woody just sit back and hire some guy who then runs the whole operation and magically turns the Jets into the best team in football. The NFL is like anything else in the highly competitive realm. It has a steep learning curve. The best franchises in the NFL have tended to have active ownership not absentees. They became the best because that ownership was a long-term concern and organizational knowledge became a big part of keeping things going. The only guy in most organizations who is still going to be there after 20 years is the owner. That makes long-term success or failure about the owner more than anything else. For better or worse the Jets have been holding their own over the span Woody Johnson has owned the Jets. That's with the steep learning curve in play. I'd rather have him own the Jets than anybody else I can reasonably make a case for owning the team because with Woody at least I know the last 14 years are part of the eventual solution. Getting a new guy would throw that away.
Woody inherited the best football operation in the NFL which he failed to secure. He not only failed to secure it he allowed it to move to a division rival. He did pretty well with the remnants of that organization keeping the Jets in the hunt in a league that supports competitive mediocrity. The Jets have never fielded an outstanding complete team during Woody's tenure despite mixed results with the exception being 08 for 3/4 of a season. The Jets have been getting on a quicker spin of hiring and firing scap goats and we are set up once again for another change with the hiring of a new GM while leaving the HC in place.
As for Brad's post, I think the emphasis on overall record is misplaced. Woody took the Jets over when they were winning and well organized. Today, that is hardly the case. It has concededly not been a consistent downward decline. There was much excitement when Favre came as free agent, and then Tanny signed a bunch of high profile but shortlived FA's to play along with the good core players, and the Jets made noise in the playoffs in 2009 and 2010. But that strategy did not achieve the ultimate, and cost the Jets in the medium term, as now we are in a three year period of decline. I would also note that Woody at first did not involve himself much in football operations. His focus was limited to real estate, specifically the WSS and then the joint deal with the Giants. It is only since that was completed that he has involved himself more in the football side of the Jets, to no perceived benefit. In the later "hands on Woody" period we have seen such travesties as the Sanchez contract extension, the Tebow trade, going from Schotty to Sparano, and then the parade of GM candidates some of whom self selected out because Woody required the GM to retain Ryan. Add in the way the psl's were handled, and I have been opposed to the partnership with the Giants as well. So the decline has not been consistent, but it is an overall decline. Woody has not demonstrated that he has learned how to run a football team. Yet he inserts himself into football decisions. This is not good, and is not a winning formula.
He's had 2 HC sign contracts with other teams while under contract with the NY Jets. Since Herm better dealed him he has been through 3GM's, 2 HC, 3 OC's, 4DC's and that's since the 06 season. Not to mention 3 complete shake ups in the scouting department.
Yep. Given that record, which is objectively true, it is hard to see how anyone can conclude that Woody is qualified to run a football organization.
There has never been a complete shakeup in the scouting department. The instability at GM and HC has been largely a result of the first GM in my opinion. There was no way to retain the previous regime when Woody Johnson took over the team. Bill Belichik and Bill Parcells had dynamics in place that would have required Woody firing Parcells to try to keep Belichik and that would have been the biggest circus of all time. I don't think firing Parcells would have worked either. Belichik did not like the NY media market at all. He wanted a smaller pond to play in which he could become a big fish.
Stop failing. Turn off the tapatalk signature. Nobody likes spam. Besides, you probably thought NO was an automatic loss, therefor your opinion means nothing. I don't know why some people seemingly root for losses. There's no such thing as an automatic loss in the NFL.
That's speculation on your part. The fact that he resigned during a press conference the team set up to introduce him as the HC tells me Woody didn't even talk to him. It's one thing for BB to want to get out of Parcells shadow it's another thing for a new owner to be so clueless about the HC on the day the team set up a press conference to announce him as their new HC. You might be right ultimately but I don't think Woody ever talked to him after becoming the owner.
I don't see how that statement at all absolves Woody. And it certainly does not address the fact that the team has been in overall decline since Woody bought it.
Fairly successful. Is that Woody's claim to fame as owner? Sheesh, how low our standards have sunk. You'll have to forgive me, but I have much higher standards than that. Woody's first statement as an owner was that the Jets were finally going to have their own home. He had experience in the business world and real estate, yet he totally screwed the pooch on getting the Jets their "own" home. He didn't do the necessary home work, greasing of palms or whatever to get the Westside Stadium approved and had no backup plan, so he had to scramble and go crawling back to the Giants to be a co-tenant at the Meadowlands swamp. Lots of us Jets fans have never forgotten that broken promise and epic failure. The Jets haven't won a SB in 44 years, not just 14. Of course, Woody hasn't owned the team for that entire span, but he hasn't done anything to seriously reverse that trend. NE has been one of the best teams over that 14 year span, but they have had a couple of down years during that time and the Jets have failed to take advantage of it. I don't believe in plain luck, be it good or bad. Just as with individuals, organizations and teams can create or affect their own "luck" (or karma) with their actions. Much, if not most of the Jets "bad luck" has been as a result of the clueless owner they had and the horrific GMs they've had and the terrible draft picks they've made. They've had opportunities to draft great players during that time and screwed the pooch. I think the same thing can be said of Woody. As Biggs pointed out, he failed to secure BB and get a quality GM and/or Team President in place. If he had, perhaps it would have been the Jets who had been the best team over the last 14 years instead of the Pats. Have things gotten better with the Jets? I say no. They are going downhill. Have they missed opportunities during these 14 years? Yes. Did the Jets become known as a circus and laughingstock of the NFL yet again on his watch? YES!!!! Had he gone against the proven way of team operations in hiring a GM and allowing him to hire the HC, then allowing the HC to hire his coordinators and assistants (with the strong input of the Coordinators he hired) A resounding yes! He saddled Rex with Schittenheimer and now saddled Idzik with Rex. In short, Woody is almost every bit as stupid and clueless as Hess. I despise him. With the way he hired Idzik (using the consulting firm) there's some hope, but the fact that he allowed whom I consider better candidates to withdraw their names from consideration for the GM job because he wouldn't allow them to fire Rex mitigates that hope.
