put the hill and holmes hate to the side for a second... with cutler... how good are they (hill+holmes) with a better qb?.. remember when cutler just got to chicago his top targets were johnny knox, hester and earl bennet..they went to a nfc champ.. i wish we traded for cutler when we had the chance in 2009.. those picks we would have givin up ended up being sanchez and kyle wilson..
Problem with saying the coaching staff needs to make the call. JI selected 3 picks in the first 39 -- 2 of them appear to be underwhelming if you put it nicely. I don't think he wants to give up on his QB selection this quickly since that spot could (and should) have been used to upgrade the TE/WR position. So whether they bring back Sanchez to compete or bring in another career backup - Geno is going to get every opportunity to win the job outright that he failed to win last year. I think that is the call of the GM not the coaches.
at this stage the Skins are more likely to trade RG3 than they are Cousins! it wont happen. Same with Cutler - its not going to happen - you dont trade what the Bears traded to just let the guy walk away.
I like Cutler but he gets hurt too much. One I do think would be great is McCown, he isn't flashy but he gets the job done. If Geno starts having trouble plug him in there.
First of all, thank you. Then turning to your comments: Would drafting a Qb lower in the draft really be the next best choice if they don't get Cutler? Well, the problem with that, despite concerns about trying to reach for one with a high pick, is that it would pretty much mean the Jets were going to give Smith the starting job next year without any real competition. I think there's too much downside there. I would say better would be to pursue some lesser quality vet than Cutler in FA. Meaning hopefully someone who is less fragile than Garrard and has played this past season, to good effect. But if they do that, then yes it would make sense to use a value pick on Qb in a later round. Maybe do that even if they get Cutler, since they seem to have so little confidence in Simms, and Smith himself might well not stick. Reaching with a high pick to fill a need - to be clear, while this is something the Jets have a poor track record at, sometimes you have to do it. But the better approach is obviously to not have to do it, which is why with cap space available the Jets can get Cutler and not need to go there. (A great example of having to reach to fill a need is right in front of us - Milliner. I don't care what anyone says about the draft board. If the Jets had not just traded Revis, there were enough concerns about Milliner that they would not have taken him, and you can be virtually certain about that. But once Revis was gone, the Jets had to consider what to do to replace him, and their next best option was reaching in the draft. We see the rather mixed results, don't we?) And I did not mean to say to be clear that their track record means they cannot do better in some future situation. I just mean don't go there if you don't have to. About politics, I was theorizing. I of course have no idea what role it will actually play. But it could easily be a factor. We shall see. Having said that, the Jets could find themselves whiffing in FA, and having to go high draft pick for a Qb, notwithstanding the politics. Because I just don't see the Jets in effect doing nothing about Qb in the coming off season. If they do that, well, let's just say that would be a big mistake.
As has been pointed out, the question was limited to who you would want to see come here, not who you think will, or will not for whatever reason even if you want him to. I think it is interesting you misread the question and ended up arguing against the Jets moving beyond Sanchez. Let the chips fall where they may.
While it is quite possible that Smith will improve, and even perhaps enough to win some Qb competition next year against Qb's who can actually meet the standard of a decent NFL Qb, there is nothing about him or his position on the team that argues against the Jets trying to get the best Qb they can for next season. It's not about what's best for Smith. It's about what is the move that will most likely make the Jets as competitive as possible next season. Again, there are other moving parts here - Ferguson, Mangold, Harris and even Cromartie if he's back and healthier are all getting a year older each season. You can add Ivory to that list if you want, too. And the Jets should not put an ability to be more competitive next season on hold because of some theoretical effect on Smith's development. They simply do not have enough either invested in him or shown by him in terms of production so far to make that an overriding concern.
That is correct. Again, the discussion here is moving away from who would be best on the list to whether it is practical to get Cutler. I understand the concern, but we simply do not know at this point what Chicago's position is going to be regarding him. Obviously if they franchise him or resign him, the discussion becomes moot, at least as regards him. But as a theoretical exercise, which is what this thread is, Cutler would be the best result if achievable.
We often agree, and I agree with most of what you say here except the bolded portion. I don't in any way agree with you that Milliner was a reach. Not only was he the consensus best CB in the draft, but he was rated as a top 10 pick by every scouting or prospect rating list that I saw. IMO it's very clear that in the first round at least, he went BPA and Milliner was not a reach.
I am in total agreement that the Jets need to bring in a vet QB next season, and someone who is capable of starting and playing well. That said, imo if they don't try to bring in Cutler it doesn't mean that they aren't trying to be as competitive as possible, and I don't necessarily think that he is the "best result". As some have pointed out he's a midwest guy. Not everyone wants to live or work (play football) in NYC (NJ). He might be miserable here, which would have an adverse affect on his play. He might press more or wilt under the intense glare and scrutiny of the NY media and fans. I also don't think it would be best for the team in the long run, either for reasons I'll enumerate further down in my response. To begin with, I don't think there's any way that Chicago will let him walk, but let's put that aside for the moment. He's gonna want a BIG contract. I don't think Idzik is the type to hand out the big FA contracts, but even if he is, with all the other holes the Jets have, would he use up perhaps most of the available cap space to sign Cutler, extend Wilk and re-sign a few of the Jets' FAs, and leave himself little to address any other holes/needs or to use as a safety net during the season? I don't think so. We saw this season that he kept a safety net to use during the season, and with all the injuries that the Jets and other teams had this season, I would think that he would do that again, as it is the smart thing to do. Even though the Jets only invested a 2nd round pick in Geno, he has the potential to be a very good NFL starting QB and has shown flashes. As several have pointed out, if Cutler is signed, then that effectively means that the Jets have already given up on Geno as their possible franchise QB. They would either be thinking of keeping him as their backup or maybe even dumping him. I don't think Idzik would give up on Geno this quickly, and I'm not convinced that either MM or Lee would want him to. In addition, while Cutler has a great arm, his mental makeup is poor. He doesn't learn from his mistakes, he isn't really a leader or face of the franchise type, and he is somewhat injury prone. He still forces the ball into tight spaces. I may be wrong, but don't recall his leading many 4th Qtr. and/or OT comebacks, either. Even with some very good Bear defenses, an excellent RB in Forte, Chicago has not been that consistently good during Cutler's time there. Their D, STs and their kicker Gould has won a LOT of their games for them, not Cutler. Is he really who you'd want leading a young team? Not me. I think the best route to go is to sign Shaun Hill or Josh McCown, or another similar QB such as Orton, Gradkowski or Campbell, someone who can be a solid starter for a stretch of games and/or solid backup, who has starting experience, can play pretty well, and run the offense efficiently. Someone with WCO experience would be preferable too. I'm not sure what systems the QBs I've named have played in, but hopefully some of them have played in a WCO. A QB like that would push Geno, but not automatically push Geno to the bench because of the size of his contract. With a full offseason to work on his fundamentals and reading Ds and with his work ethic and history of watching tons of film, I full expect Geno to come back to camps a much different and better QB. Once he's not having to think about footwork or other fundamentals, his accuracy will return. Once he has some real weapons to work with on offense (I fully expect Idzik to address the WR and TE positions in a significant fashion as well as to address the OL play), he won't be as likely to press and push to have to do too much to get the team moving. He needs to be given every opportunity to succeed. Just because the Jets don't have a lot invested in him in terms of $s or a 1st round pick,doesn't mean they should just throw him on the trash heap after one season. They do have a lot invested in him in terms of games, coaching time and energy. He has shown coolness and poise, a strong arm, great accuracy at times, the ability to run and give opposing Ds something else to think about, and leadership. It's just too hard to be able to get a top-rated potential franchise QB in the draft. You generally either have to lose a ton of games and be picking in the top 3-5 or give up a king's ransom to trade up. Every other QB has more serious questions and may need more time to develop. If they need to sit for a while, fine, but imo you don't then sign a FA QB who will be guaranteed to be your starter for the next 4-5 years. It would be one thing for a QB like Hill or McCown to begin next season as the starter because you know that you don't have a lot of money invested in him and he isn't the long-term answer. Geno would have a chance to unseat him during the season or at worst in 2015. With Cutler it would be a different story, because you'd have so much money tied up in him for 4-5 years, that he'd have to start much as Sanchez did due to his contract. If they were to sign Cutler, that would make the Geno pick wasted, because imo you don't use your 2nd round pick on your backup QB unless it's a luxury pick and you have no other pressing holes/needs. They might as well have stuck with Sanchez as the starter in 2013 and used the 2nd round pick on a WR or TE.
In hindsight I should not have used the word "reach". What I meant was that even considering BPA, Milliner had issues. His health and his defensive scheme at Alabama were issues. But putting that aside we will have to agree to disagree about the rest of it. If the Jets on draft day had Revis under a new contract, with Cro already on the squad, having already spent a first round pick on Wilson, imo there was no way they were going corner in the first round.
Lots to respond to here, so excuse me if I do not respond to everything, especially where I tend to agree with you. That leaves: Cutler and NYC. The midwest stuff aside, I actually think Cutler has demonstrated an above average ability to deal with the NYC media and market. Imo no other market is closer in similarity than Chicago is. A town that size with only one NFL team - we can all be sure he's used to dealing with media even better than most anyone other than say Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and perhaps Tony Romo. Better than Eli Manning, heh. Even his Denver job was pretty high profile. And from what i recall Brett Favre had concerns about playing here, which I would say were not totally unfounded in his case, but on the whole from what else I gather he was happier here than he feared. After all you don't have to emulate Joe Namath's lifestyle to spend most of your week in Floral Park. Cutler the Player. Statwise Cutler is the best on the list the OP posted. He's the right age to step in with the Jets' core players (McCown concerns me there, as does Hill who will be 34 next month). I perhaps would not place as much value on Cutler being younger than some of the other options if I was more comfortable betting on Smith going forward. But I am not that comfortable. Chicago's Plans. I have no idea what Chicago is going to do, and from what I have heard neither do they as yet. If they lock him up, so be it. Money; Other Qb's. This is at least somewhat a matter of speculation, I am sure you would agree. How much of the cap would Cutler take up? I don't know. Of course I would not suggest he take up most of the cap space, but I could go more than half, for sure. But while I see value in some of the others you have mentioned (I still like Orton here - I have been pointing at him since Denver cut him as someone the Jets should get), their cost will bear close relation to their perceived market value. If the Jets have the space and given the adage you get what you pay for, if they have the money, they should spend it where you can most improve the team. A top fifteen NFL Qb at age 30 is a better place to spend the money than anywhere else i can think of. Idzik. You can't go on what Idzik did last off season as an indicator of what he will do this off season. He had no space to work with. Woody on the other hand did go for spending the money on Brett Favre. Smith. As I have said elsewhere, signing Cutler would most likely mean Smith does not start in the near future, but that is not the same as giving up on him. It merely means he will not likely outplay Cutler and win the starting job. So? The Jets do not have the investment in Smith that would justify passing on the opportunity to get someone like Cutler. That about covers it, since I totally agree it is too hard to get a top Qb in the draft.
Cousins limited NFL tape is a valid concern, no doubt. the Skins may end up shutting down RGIII for the year, which would give us all a couple more games to get a look at Cousins. i like his potential as a starter, and will be watching those games closely if he starts. I like Henne and Hill for depth and competition. But bringing in one of those guys is really the same as just hoping Smith gets better. It isn't enough. they would only get on the field as a stop gap if Smith blows in camp or early season, and then in 2015 we are in the same situation thinking about drafting a QB high. I'm all for spending a high draft pick this year, or making a trade like Cousins, as well as bringing in a Hill, Henne, or even McCown. Make it a real competition, with much better odds of our future QB being on the 2014 roster. Edt** i should note that i like Cutler a lot BUT 1) i don't see Chicago letting him go 2) he'll be very expensive 3) with his spotty perception amongst fans and even players, a market like NY could be a combustible situation waiting to happen. There would be a lot of risk in going after Cutler. enough to make me hesitant at least.
I find it funny how many Jets fans don't want a good QB. It's like they're so used to having shit bag QB's they are scared of what might happen if they had a good one. Oh but Geno Smi ... fuck Geno Smith. When he's ready to play QB for the Jets, fine, put him in. But he's not.
hahaha, there is a lot of truth to that. It's like Jet fans are becoming programmed to feel obligated to defend their markedly below average quarterback. That's what 4 years of Sanchez will do to you . . . The Logic is: Because our delusional head coach let Mark Sanchez openly suck for 4 years without holding him accountable for his consistently poor play, we have to now let Geno openly suck for AT LEAST 4 years before deciding whether we are allowed to give someone else a chance. It's comical
Too much risk for a serviceable QB at best that we would have to overpay. Is Idzik willing to get into a bidding war with the Titans? I think not. It's a pipe-dream. I would rather draft plenty of play-makers in this year's draft, get a Shaun Hill type of QB (fraction of the price) and draft a QB late in this draft (David Fales) and a QB in 2015. Everything on offense should be in place by then.
This! Shaun Hill and Rex Grossman are both good, very affordable stop gap options that will give this team a chance to win each week as long as we add talent in other areas. Either one has enough gas in the tank to hold the fort for a couple years if necessary. Next year we would do well with the following at QB 1. Hill or Grossman 2. Sanchez (with pay cut) or Simms 3. Geno Smith (too soon to cut him loose) 4. Round 3-5 draft pick (would have to beat out Simms in training camp if Sanchez is on roster), otherwise practice squad Hill or Grossman starts next year until someone can show the coaches they deserve a shot at the job. If no one can unseat our starter we can dump Sanchez (and possibly others) and bring in someone else the following year.
Totally agree. That is my issue with Cutler. He has talent and would, most certainly, be an upgrade over anyone we have had at the position since a healthy Favre in early 2008, but he's not an elite player. He's mistake prone and he gets hurt a lot. And then there's the kicker: He's going to want to be paid like a top 5-10 QB. I don't want to hastily overpay to be good. I want to build patiently, and hopefully one day, be great.
