You just went against your own point... Hard to win a jump ball that doesn't exist. I mean, you have to eventually see if he can do it or not. You find nothing out by constantly using him as a decoy.
My point was that they were productive despite who was throwing to them. When Geno threw jump balls to Hill they got picked off or incomplete. Hill catches the ball with his body. He doesn't grab the ball out the air with his hands.
But they were not productive by their standards and you were implying that the QB is not a valid excuse. Now, you are using it as an excuse. That makes no sense. And are you watching the same games? He hasn't gotten any jump balls. I'm not saying Hill is some kind of great red zone threat, but we do eventually need to see if he can go up and get it.
Hill has shown he cannot go up and get the ball as the other poster stated. He is a body catcher and does not use his hands. when it is a jump ball he usually just jumps and flails his arms wildly hoping to get a pass interference call, it's actually quite pathetic. I presume he is a bad route runner because he is never open when the ball is thrown to him. The coaches tape should reveal that, but I do not have access to it. He is not a football player. Whoever scouted him and/or recommended he be drafted in the 2nd round has hopefully already been fired. He would have been decent gamble in the 5th round or later.
No one is saying Hill is devoid of any blame, but if my amateur football eyes can see one or two plays a game where Hill has his man beat, ( or close enough that it's worth a throw ) that should be enough for him to get at least a handful of targets per game. If you throw 2-3 bombs to the sideline for hill when he's got one on one coverage you will open up so much more of the offense. Even if it's incomplete, Watching a guy with 4.2 speed streak down the sideline with the ball in the air will make any defense think twice about zero coverage, Doesn't matter how bad they think that WR sucks. Not to mention the fact that most CBs won't be able to keep up with that kind of speed for the entire game. We see this just about every game against us where our DL pressure forces the QB to throw the ball deep with single coverage. Whenever we see pressure we check down to the RB for no gain, get sacked, or throw a pick. Bilal Powel was our second most targeted "receiver" on Sunday with 5. David Nelson saw a team high 8 targets and only caught 3. For all of those saying Hill can't be trusted to try and go up for the ball and that's Smith isn't throwing him the ball consider this, David Nelson seems to be Geno's favorite target but his stats show he's actually less productive then Hill. David Nelson 20/41 248yds ( 12.4/ctch ) 2drops 48.8 % Catch Rate 4.9% Drop Rate Stephen Hill 24/58 342yds ( 14.3/ctch ) 1drop 41.4 % Catch Rate 1.7% Drop Rate I really think there's some kind of beef between Geno Smith and Stephen Hill, I've never seen the two of them talking. After Simms interception yesterday Hill went right up to Simms and looked like him and Morningwig were telling Simms if he through a jump ball it was 6 points.
But they were productive considering who was throwing to them. I'm repeating that phrase again. If you go from Peyton to Painter your production will dip. It's only common sense. Hill hasn't done a thing out there in almost 2 months. The last jump ball that was thrown to him got picked off against Buffalo (?)
But you were saying that the QB should have no effect on production. Obviously, the QB did. Therefore, the QB throwing to the receiver is a valid excuse. I don't know how else to say that. Buffalo? http://thejetsblog.com/bga/bga-receivers-hill-streak-blues/
24 of 58 is terrible. 20 of 41 is not good but 24 of 58 is much worse. Hill is now 45 of 106 for his career or 42.4%. As a whole the Jets are at about 55% over that span. Now, there's one factor that could change that perception. If most of Hills targets were deep instead of mid-range or short then you'd expect his catch percentage to be lower because long passes have a lower completion percentage. I don't have access to the splits to look at that, however Hills receptions have been: 28 from 1 to 10 yards, 9 from 11 to 20, 4 from 21 to 30 and 2 from 31+. That suggests that his catch percentage is probably weak across the board. Either that or almost non-existent at deep ranges.
Thank you sir, but I don't think there is any beef between Geno and Hill. I think they are both developing players being forced into action.
It's not that bad when you consider how awful some of the throws have been. I think the splits will probably show around the same catch percentage across the board. We don't go deep enough for there to be a low percentage down the field.
I honestly don't see much of a difference between the two, Both of those stat lines are terrible, That's my point. People saying Hill isn't trustworthy receiver can't say that Nelson is, Yet Nelson gets target after target.
If you go back and watch the first offensive series of the game, Hill was open on at least 2 plays maybe even all 3 ( I don't have the access all-22 at work ). Play #1: Hill has off coverage and his CB turns to try and keep up with him after he gets a clean break from the line, A back shoulder throw here to Hill is a completion of at least 12-15 yards. Smith holds the ball staring down the left side of the field and then takes a sack. Play #2: Hill goes into motion and then runs a hitch route and is wide open had Geno gotten the ball out in time, Instead he holds if for an extra second and then dumps it out to Cumberland in the flat short of the first down. Play #3: Bunch formation on the right. Hill runs through his defender and has a clear shot at the endzone streaking to the left pylon if Smith sees him and lofts it up it has potential for 7, Instead Smith never looks to the left and throws one of the worst NFL passes I've seen in a long time to Nelson who actually has some space if it was an accurate throw.
If you had paid any attention to the draft im sure you would know that Jeffery and Randle were rated much higher throughout the draft process than Hill was. Many on this very own site wanted either one of those instead of Hill- see you dont have to be a pro scout to see talent. Hill was pretty much a 4th round pick up until the combine. Whenever a player rises due to the combine, you should probably stay away. The combine should only be used to solidify an opinion already formed from watching tape on the player. In Hills case, it wasnt used in this way. It shot him up the board for the wrong reasons. Also, D Thomas and Calvin going to the same school probably increased the infatuation with Hills "raw" ability and what type of ceiling he might have.
D Thomas and Calvin played in a different offense right? Man our scouting department is dumb to even think of such a thing ... imagine having Jeffery on this offense, dude had the catch of the year on Sunday
There's also 2 plays at the start of the second quarter that Hill is open and not targeted. Play #1: 2nd qtr 14:30 2nd and 16. Hill runs a quick in and his CB is totally turned around and ends up with his back to the play. Smith holds on to the ball then tries to throw it into triple coveage, Almost an interception. Play #2: Very next play, Hill lined up outside, goes into motion against man coverage, Breaks across the middle of the field and has his man beat to the inside and plenty of space, A well placed throw is a huge gain here as the fins had brought a lot of pressure and stacked the line. I can go on but I'm supposed to be working. You get the point.
Randle is meh, Jeffery and T.Y. are the only WR that I would say are doing all that much better then Hill right now. Both are decent now, But I think T.Y. benefits greatly from having Luck under center. If Hill can improve he can be better then T.Y. I wouldn't mind a straight trade for Jeffery if it was available but I don't think he'd have much more success here then Hill is.
I'm saying that the receiver should still be productive. It's obvious that a bad QB can affect a receivers numbers but not to the point where they're nonexistent like Hill. If it wasn't Buffalo it was a recent opponent. I'll take your word for it.
I was very high on Jeffery. It's hard to argue with his production, in the sec no less. Jeffery would be doing better than Hill, but I don't know how much better considering we have shit under center and no Brandon Marshall on the other side.
You dont think they havent figured that out in practice or TC? It doesnt take a game situation to figure this out, and Im almost positive that they know Hill can not high point a ball. The majority of his catches are using his body. Randle will take over opposite Cruz when Nicks is gone and he is a hell of a lot better than anything we have. He's already better than Nicks and I am very confident that he will have over 1'000 yards next year. Hill won't be better than Hilton... or Jeffery, or Randle. Best case scenario, Hill manages to be a decent #2 with a good QB throwing to him. I personally dont see that happening though. Greg Salas who we picked up off the street is outplaying him. Nelson is outplaying him too, even though he isnt very good. We will probably keep him around next year because he was a 2nd round pick, but we shouldnt rely on him being anything other than a #4. Who knows, maybe with a new WR coaching and a good QB he could be a decent player... Up to this point he has given me no confidence in that happening.
