I don't hold it against Hundley where he has had to play under an offensive line that has been moved around a bunch. Stanford absolutely tooled the UCLA O-Line and Hundley got overwhelmed badly as a result for instance. He's often on the run because of his O-Line.
I don't think any of the sophomores will come out except for maybe Manziel. The draft is too deep at QB to stick your toe in the pool unless you know where you'll be drafted. Mariotta will ask the NFL Draft Advisory Council where he's likely to go and he'll be told rounds 1 to 4. Hundley will ask and he'll be told rounds 2 to 4. Both of those guys have good expectations of being a clear 1st round pick in 2015 if they stay in school and both of them will likely stay. Manziel will ask and he'll be told rounds 1 to 2 because the hype is going to keep him from falling much further than that. Tebow had a junky combine for a QB in everything but the interview room and he still found a taker late 20's. Manziel will be the same way. He's likely to take the risk and come out, figuring he's going up against Mariotta anyway in 2015.
When the Jets picked Geno at 39 i literally turned off the TV. I had had enough, they already picked Milliner who i wasn't a fan of, Richardson who i liked but questioned the fit (obviously turned out to be wrong) and then Geno who I was iffy about the whole season. I still support Geno but that last game, i think i finally really started to question whether he would ever be even a good QB. Rookies are always going to struggle but his awareness is so off at a times its unbearable. Plus he doesn't have have elite skills like say a Cam Newton, RGIII, Andrew Luck where u say yeah he doesn't have it together now, but if he ever does it would be worth the struggle . Now you don't a need an elite QB to win a Super Bowl (Flacco, E.Manning). But you see how those 2 teams are playing now. Without there great defenses of the past their weaknesses and them not actually being great QBs, they are both just average teams. Teams that have Elite QBs will never be bad Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers i think its about time we go all out and do everything possible to obtain a QB like that. Now i know thats asking for much but this team has been the epitome of average for what 40+ years now. It took awhile and I'm usually in favor of giving QBs time to get better but I think the writings on the wall, why stay on the ship if you think its going to sink. I know he has below average talent at the skill position and the O-line has struggled but he has looked lost as of late, he played OK in the beginning of the season but now he looks completely lost. Saying this I'm now totally in favor of drafting a QB in the first, yes it was a mistake drafting Geno in the 2nd and maybe another position should have been addressed. Idzik shouldn't let his decision of the past affect his thinking towards the future. There are great QBs in this draft, time is of the essence. We now have a good backup QB in Geno, and a great 3rd in Simms next year lets get the starter.
I don't particularly want to throw another rookie to the wolves until the Jets have fixed the supporting cast on offense. That's asking for the most common thread this time next year to be "why do the Jets keep throwing rookie QB's to the wolves?" If the Jets are in give-up mode on Geno by draft day I'd much rather they acquire a veteran QB to take the lumps next season and also draft somebody to compete with Geno for the backup spot and the starter spot in 2015. The Jets haven't had a stable QB position since 2006. Everybody since has either been young and failing or a one year fix. The answer in that situation is to use a one year fix to allow the young guys to get some ground beneath their feet. The Jets offense the last three years has been like quicksand.
Agreed. I dont see how Mariota doesnt come out. Hundley on the other hand shouldnt come out. He's not ready and I dont think he'd go that high.
Mariota isn't going to come out because a sophomore QB has never been drafted in the NFL draft, let alone the 1st round. Manziel will probably come out because he is Manziel and thinks he is above the rules that apply to everybody else but I'd be really surprised if Mariota thinks he's got a lock on anything in the draft next season.
Well the problem with that, is if the Jets are in a position to draft a possible franchise QB. Its easy to say next year sign a vet and the following year draft a franchise QB. You have no clue how that QB class will end up. Flash back to 2012 and there was a lot of talk about how the 2013 QB class could be a good one with Logan Thomas, Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, Tyler Bray, ect. Look how that turned out. If we are in position to draft a franchise QB, we are in no position to pass on him and say lets wait until next year.
By definition the spot the Jets are likely to draft on is unlikely to produce a prospect that is a lock franchise QB. That doesn't mean there won't be a QB on the top of the Jets list and that they won't take him there. It does mean that nobody who is sitting on the 14 or 15 pick is going to be a lock to be the guy. If the Jets had a top 5 pick next year and the 2nd QB on everybody's board was there, well then they might have to take him. That's how they got Mark Sanchez after all.
I don't know who said that, but whoever did, I'm not taking them seriously. None of those QBs were projected to be good NFL starters. That said this draft is overrated. I truly see only 2 good QBs in Bridgewater and Carr. I don't think Mariotta should come out and if he does it will be a grave mistake, he's surrounded by NFL talent and it honestly makes his job easier. A bad NFL team with no talent and Mariotta gets drafted by them? Guaranteed bust.
History does not matter in this case. Everyone and their mother knows that Mariota is a top 10 lock, and most likely a top 5 lock. He is not going to pass that up just because its never happened in the history of the draft. Up until last year, a freshman has never won the heisman, but that has changed. There's no denying his talent and he does have a very good pedigree. Let me ask you about Cam Newton. He played ONE year of CFB. He was the 1st overall pick, and it has paid off. He had undeniable arm talent and physical talent, and despite the lack of experience, he was still the top pick. Why is his situation any different than Mariotas?
Well if you paid attention to the draft then, you'd probably know that they were the top rated QBs entering that year (Logan Thomas based solely off physical ability). Bray, Landry and Barkley were certainly thought of as 1st round picks, and good ones at that. Obviously, that changed quickly, and that was my point.
Anyone that thought those QBs were first round worthy should of been fired on the spot. That is asinine. They never stood out with their football IQ. That was well before last year's college football season even started. You compare Cam Newton to this situation, but Cam is a physical monster at 6'4 240 pounds. He wasn't surrounded by NFL talent and put up Godly numbers. That is a tough comparison to make.
Mark Sanchez was in a great situation had a great O-line ahead of him, LT and Greene in the backfield, Holmes, Edwards, Cotchery and Keller to throw. A championship defense and still wasn't able to even bring the jets to the super bowl. U see how having a mediocre QB derails things a little. I would dare anybody to tell me they really think Geno will end up as a pro bowl QB at this point. No one is expected him to light it up but does he even show flashes of great QB coming soon. Im not talking about not fucking up I'm talking about has there ever been a play Geno has made where you say WOW that was all him, awesome play. Sure he's been solid against NE, NO, and ATL but do we want solid or ELITE I probably would have agreed with you a week ago, but when has someone ever been drafted in the perfect position, had great Oline and a great set of skill positions to work with.Its never going to be perfect, if it were we wouldnt need a QB. I agree we need to address the skill positions. The whole point is its never going o be the perfect time to draft a QB, everything isn't going to be set up perfect for him. We keep on drafting D, i love Rex, but this is the one problem I've had with Rex they draft on D but then sign free agents/trade on offense(Holmes, Edwards, Tomlinson, Faneca,Woody). Stephen Hill is a bust and should have never been drafted in front of Alshon Jeffery, i said it then ill say it again now. I literally think the Jets saw, Calvin Johnson and Demarius Thomas and thought oh he'll end up just like them. Well it hasn't worked out, he's a deep ball catcher who will sometimes drop it even in that situation. This year we should literally draft only on offense i wouldn't mind all picks being on offense just to switch it up a little and make up for the lack of attention offense has been given for the last couple of years.
Yes, I said in 2012, people thought the following year's QB class (2013) would be good with the players I named. It shows that you can never predict what the following years class will be like, specifically from a QB standpoint. Cam was a physical "monster", but so is Mariota in his own right. He's not 240 pounds, but he can run a 4.4 and has the frame to put on another 20 pounds. But in terms of the comparison, I was really comparing their experience.
Laxins right "at the time" and i stress whats in quotations, that class was projected to be great. Barkley, Thomas, Bray, Wilson, Jones and then you had the wildcards in Manuel and Smith.
The more I look at next year's draft class the more I'm not really sure I want any of them other than Bridgewater. Whether or not he ends up panning out in the NFL (his competition isn't too intense) that guy easily has the best poise, mechanics, and accuracy of the entire draft class. A lot of talk about Carr around these parts. Have any of you watched him play? That team's strength of schedule is an absolute joke. Biggest knock I see on him is he really doesn't throw his receivers open, he only hits wide-open targets. Mariota is so overrated, at least from what I can see. His offense is run with almost entirely quick screens and passes, and the guy doesn't really progress through reads. Manziel is interesting and probably the biggest question mark of anyone in this year's draft class. He just can't sit in the pocket like most QB's, and obviously its a lot easier to improvise in the college game than the NFL. Nontheless he can make all the throws and he's an incredible athelete. Murray and McCarron are guys that I feel are both a bit overrated. They are surrounded by superstars and Murray in particular has had a bit of a rough season. I see them more as game managers but they are interesting prospects. Boyd I feel will probably go higher than most expect, but I don't see him as an NFL passer. He has arguably the best receiving core in the country. Here's how I would rank this year's draft class in terms of purely the eye test: Bridgewater > Manziel > Murray >McCarron > Boyd > Mariota > Mettenberger > Carr I know there is a lot of hate towards Manziel but I can see him being an exciting player in the NFL game.
Those QBs you mentioned were never rated as first round talent or "franchise QB worthy" - it was questionable at best. Barkley's JR year was excellent though, but I won't forget the fact that he had 2 NFL talented WRs on each end. That in a way is similar to Geno Smith. You can't compare their experience and not talk about the talent around them. Cam in that one year put that team on his back and carried them to a National Title in the SEC. Mariota has NFL talent all around him. I highly doubt those QBs you mentioned were projected to be great in a good QB class. Each QB had glaring flaws in their game. Luckily the Jets took the worst one in the 2nd round. That class of QBs was never meant to be great, not once.
Yes they were, and just because you may not remember, it doesnt mean its not true. And for reference- http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=72186 Obviously WW's rankings aren't scouts rankings, but people were very high on Barkley and Bray entering 2013. As WW noted, he wasnt as high on Jones, but others were, and many had him as a 1st round prospect as well. You are missing the point. Bradway said that in the history of the draft, a sophomore QB has never been selected in the 1st. I brought up Cam because he had only one year of real CBF experience. Thats all. But in terms of prospects, Im not going to fault Mariota for having talent around him. It works both ways, QBs can make players around him look better than they are. You bring up the talent around Mariota, but Cam also had one of the nations best RB's at the time in Michael Dyer. Mariota has undeniable talent, and Id gladly take him in the 1st. Sadly for us, he wont even sniff our pick.
