Incognito or Martin?

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Dirty, the 'pussy' comment (to put it in its intended context) was not my own personal assessment of Martin (who cares what I or you think of him?) but instead was directed towards the fallout that would come with adding Martin to the Jet mix (the ESPN vultures, opponents, etc.).

In short, Jonathan Martin's red-hot radioactive and would imo generate another Tebow-type "issue" distraction that I'd rather see this team move away from. I'd rather Idzik, Ryan, MM stay the current course and stay out of the scrutiny/lampooning spotlight from external sources which are usually derisive trolls if 2012 history taught us anything.

I don't care about adding Martin, not because of whether he's a wuzz or not but because of the unwanted conversation he would engender. Let the ad nauseum back-and-forth continue to play on in OTHER circles....let the Jets focus on Buffalo (short-term) and go about our business from there.....possible playoffs, Rex's status, the '14 draft, etc.

 

Because he should have tried to handle the situation privately in-house first before doing what he did. He didn't have the balls to tell Incognito to stop, he didn't have the balls to go to the position coach, head coach, general manager or team owner and tell them what his perceived issues were.

Instead he quit and then tried to bury a man's career in the media - without ever talking to him first. That's as soft as it gets.

 

There's no way you could possibly know that. According to Incognito, Martin never once expressed any type of displeasure or mentioned that he was going too far. He also said he would have stopped had he known it was affecting him that badly. In hind sight it's easy to say, but the dude wouldn't even stand up for himself and voice his problem with Incognito. He laughed at his alleged racist flaming voice mail and even sent one back about killing Incognito's family. Sounds like these guys were just joking around until one day Martin suddenly snapped. The adult thing to do is at least attempt to talk about it first. This isn't middle school where they just want to impress the cool kids. This is an adult football team and at the very least he could have brought it up to the coach if he was afraid of confronting him.

 

Just don't forget to sweep the leg like we taught you.

 

Interesting conversation on the field after last night's game on ESPN with Rick Reilly and Trent Dilfer, Steve Young and Ray Lewis. Reilly basically said the days of these types of locker rooms and hazing are over. The players even Ray agreed that would be a positive. Dilfer called the NFL players who push the culture of the locker room and the hazing as rite of passage for young players as Neanderthals. And all agreed you can have toughness and play football at high level without it. PS some players have been injured during these kinds of fraternity like stunts. IMO the owner of the Fins has to address his players and tell them point blank: It's over. And the coaches have to enforce it.

 

Sign either. They learned their lesson. And NO I would want wayne hunter back.

 

If the coaches and leaders of the team set the tone that this type of BS is not what the team is about and punish those that break the rules to enforce them it would probably be a good thing for all concerned.

The problem in this case is that we are talking about a team sport where about 100 guys from the owner to the managers to the coaches to the assistants and ultimately the players have to work together as a cohesive unit to succeed. If one guy just doesn't seem to fit in with what that team is all about then maybe it ends up being his problem.

Life isn't always fair and just being on an NFL roster puts anyone light years ahead of where thousands of other guys who would kill for such a chance are. There are many possible motives for a player to drag his team mates and coaches through the mud. Perhaps Martin believes that what he is doing is the right thing but it seems to me that there was probably a better way.

 

I get what you're saying, except we don't really know if that is true. If Martin had approached Incognito, as you and others are suggesting, would you expect Incognito to admit it? After all, that would completely undermine his entire story that they were friends and this was all just in good fun. As for the coaches, etc. I will say this: if he did approach them then he would have been called a tattle tale anyway. Just as imoirtantly, we now know that at least some of the coaching staff was behind releasing the Incognito attack dot on Martin.

So even though I get what you're saying, I think some peeps aren't seeing the entirely miserable and no-win situation he was in.

as an aside, I have a strong suspicion that Martin did try to approach Incognito. He is a smart man and that was likely his first action. However, I think that would only have encouraged Incognito for a variety of reasons.

 

Philosophically I agree with your dojo master's stand, but in practice it is hardly ever that simple. The DM is assuming that the only repercussion is a black eye and so this is a false choice to make. What if your attacker had a knife? A gun? Or in Martin's case there was really more than one and threatened to hurt not only you but family if you didn't obey? Of course the bullies of the world deserve a thorough thrashing if they cross the line, but most bullies are also manipulative. If you've never been in these circumstances then it may be hard to understand, but I get it--I've dealt with plenty of people whom I would describe as bullies and even psychopaths.

 

Can a moderator combine my quotes please? I not sure how to do it now that I have this series.

in re: to James Hasty. I wouldn't be too hasty to judge here. (heh heh). Remember that it all depends WHY he "didn't fit" with the team. Was he plateauing? Regressing? Showed no promise? Then yes, I agree that that is just too bad for him.

OTOH, if your "team" wanted you to do something unethical or illegal then that isn't an excuse. The same applies if they wanted to do those things to the person in question. I don't think you mean it this way but what you are arguing is that a player must be bound by franchise culture no matter what that culture is. That's a problem, at least for me it is.

 

I think is wise not to leap to the aid of Jonathan Martin and punish the wicked evil Richie incognito as the press has done until more of the facts of this case become available. Call it a gut feeling but I think there could have been ulterior motives involved and do not accept Martin's claims at face value. For the most part I have been playing devil's advocate and asking the questions that many are not asking or answering for this reason.

 

As I undertand it, Martin called the Dolphins GM and told him about the situation. Ireland's response was to tell Martin to punch Incognito. Which is an absurd thing for an executive to tell an employee, football team or not. The entire organization is dysfunctional.

 

Here you go - per your request.

Regards,
joe mod

 

^ This ^

There's more to this story than meets the eye.

 

You're right none of us know anything other than:
-RI Sent some extremely offensive texts.
-Martin also sent some nasty texts.
-Martin quit the team
-RI has been suspended while an investigation is conducted.

Those are the facts that we all know the rest is what we think. I guess people with experience of this kind of situation , be it professional or personal are looking at the classic signs of these allegations.

Now this is what I do know. Many many victims of bullying put up with and sometimes even join in in giving back verbal sparring. Its usually a a last chance attempt to either fit in or be accepted.
If this fails and usually it does some kind of unusual reaction usually follows, followed by the fall-out, if and when the victim brings it to the attention of others outside of the bull(ies) circles.

My gut feeling is that Martin's story has some credence, but until ALL the facts are out everything else is just conjecture.

I'm not attacking RI or defending Martin, I'm an advocate of 'Innocent until proved guilty'. All I'm saying is that the information that has been released so far doesn't look good for RI so far.
If what's been alleged by Martin is correct, look for and NFL investigation in all teams when this is all over.

I'm not sure why posters here keep referencing bullying to be a thing that only children do. Bullying in the workplace is unfortunately common place and more often done knowingly by adults.

 

Looks like Incognito will know his fate sooner rather later...