He was in position to win it, his defenses gave him that opportunity unlike our Ds in the title games. I don't rank him ahead, if all things are equal Sanchez has been every bit as good as far as being able to win. You do know that despite SB caliber talent the great Eli has missed 3 of the last 4 postseasons, right? who cares if they were under 100 yds once? their YPC was terrible, they were running out the clock w/ big leads. Let's look at the SB, the game was over after the INT, KR, KR sequence that left bal up 24-7 in the 3rd. They had 133 yds in the SB, after the 24-7 lead they ran it 14 times for 40 yds(2.9 YPC), garbage time runs that got them over 100. The game changed on one play, a long bomb from dilfer to Stokely not on any runs. The 2006 D was just as good(Rex thinks they may have been better) and they had a borderline HOF QB running the team. In their playoff loss they didn't allow a TD yet they were one and done. They don't hold the record for fewest points allowed in a season by the way or fewest PPG. Actually what is amazing is you can't read. It's painful to read post of an adult who has the reading comprehension of a 6 year old.
you said I don't rank him ahead, if all things are equal Sanchez has been every bit as good as far as being able to win but you must qualify it that eli had superbowl talent... and if mark had the same talent he WOULD have won just as many and with the jets talent eli would have won nothing. then you tell us about how his defense helped him win the superbowl, and our defense failed us. then you tell us that mark is good because he won playoff games. is that your stance? the fun thing is that it is beside the point, what you are talking about is just bullshit to get a rise out of people, IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER. it is just something you can claim to be true even though there is NOTHING to back it up. its pure conjecture and opinion. so lets go back to why cant mark sanchez put the ball where it needs to be? he got a guy blown up in practice teh other day... i bet he led him into a defender instead of back shouldering the ball or putting it where the guy would have to stop. mark doesnt make alot of completions, we have gone over that a few times. he ALSO doesnt put the ball in teh right place a good portion of the times when he DOES get a completion. it may seem like a little thing but its yards left on the field and much more important than what eli manning did. so leave your bullshit and conjecture at home and lets get to the bottom of the issue, is mark sanchez a good quarterback. and i dont want to hear about the defense or the jets in 1978 or any of the other bullshit you try to use as a smoke screen so you can avoid the inevitable fact that mark sanchez is in fact NOT a good quarterback and hasnt been. and as much as it willl make you sad probably never will be.
I'm with alleycat on this one. Enough about playoff wins and Eli Manning and Peyton and all this other nonsense. Mark Sanchez being on 2 playoff teams that happen to get to the AFC championship game twice doesn't make him good. Lets talk about his accuracy, or him turning the ball over or his footwork, pocket presence, inability to read a defense, not being able to consistently hit receivers in stride etc those are the real issues not playoff wins and bad mouthing the defense.
he has been, Mark has 4 playoff wins in 4 years, Eli has 8 in 9 years. Eli did have SB talent and made 1 playoff app the last 4 years. When Mark had SB talent he helped us to 2 title games. Switch Mark and Eli and I think we see the same team results, we didn't lose b/c of Mark, NYG didn't win b/c of Eli. Their D shut down maybe the greatest O of all time in SB XLII, slowed them down in XLVI and kept them in both title games including setting up GW FG w/ INT in OT at GB in the '07 title game. In '11 it was STs that set up the chip shot GW in OT. I have never said mark is good now, Mark was good when he had talent around him. It's basic reading comprehension. b/c I support mark you read: "mark is great, mark carried us to 2 title games, mark was the sole reason we made 2 title games, the D stunk, the run game stunk,..." when in reality I have always said we were a D first team, I have acknowledged the help of the D and run game but even w/ a great D(which we never were) you still need quality QB play to win consistently in January and Mark gave us that. I am about winning, I know we can win w/ Mark if provided the right cast, he's also still young and I don't give up on young players right away b/c they had one bad year w/ healthy talent no QB could win with. We had similar talent in 2008 w/ a much easier sched than either 2009 or 2010 and no Tom Brady to deal with while we had a future HOF QB running our offense yet we failed to make the playoffs. You guys like fantasy #s, I like wins. years primary starter, playoff apps, playoff wins, win %, years w/ losing seasons (franchise leader in bold) Mark Sanchez 4, 2, 4, 53%, 1 Joe Namath 9, 2, 2, 49%, 4 Ken O'Brien 7, 2, 0, 46%, 3 Chad Pennington 4, 3, 2, 52%, 1 Richard Todd 6, 2, 2, 45%, 3
Is there a point attempting to be made here that had Mark Sanchez been QB'ing the NYG he'd have 2 SB rings?
The point is if we switch the QBs we have the same results, NYG wasn't carried by Eli. he played very well(like mark did for us) but it came down to D and STs doing their jobs. Ours did it for the WC and div rounds but couldn't do it for the title games, NYG's did it for WC, div, title game and SB.
All BS. His pocket presence is decent his accuracy a bit above average. Reading defenses seems at least average maybe above average for a fifth year player. Stride things is horseshit plain and simple you chooches used the same argument for Penny. There is only one reason Marks job is jeopardy and that is ball security. He throws the ball into coverage instead of taking a sack or throwing it away and he fumbles way to much. I worry about the mental beating he took and the Tennessee game was just bad. Az made a lot of Qbs look bad though. He played better than most give him credit for last season until after the second pats game she he became an intended machine. He still played decent against the jags and rams. Mark cuts down the fumbles he will play in this league for a long time. The problem is fans only see the negative. There was a reason the Jets didn't look for a Qb this off season. Should we talk about the competition bullshit. You don't draft a qb fifth and have competition you get him help with good coaching and weapons. Instead they took away weapons and hired sparano. Now we are were we are Mark puts up this year or is gone. It is that simple . Jets fan put Geno in if he struggles we draft another Qb. How about we develop Geno he seems to have all the tools now let's get him good coaching and some weapons so he can be successful if Mark fails. you do not normally get two chances for a franchise qb in five years. Looks like jets screwed up the first one with the way they supported Sanchez after back to back afcc (which is obviously easy). The jets have the luxury of not playing Geno right away. He will be better for sitting for year and learning how to become an NFL qb. Breaking down film reading defenses preparing etc. We should be excited that this kid has the tools now let's make him an NFL Qb and not hope he just becomes one.
Fascinating... I acknowledge your point that the NY Giants are not the NY Jets and that it's a team effort. Point well taken. But the above is a considerable stretch that cannot be ignored. You're assuming that Mark would have gotten the same results if he QBed the NY Giants? And that Eli would not have been able to salvage more wins last year for the Jets had he been the QB of the NY Jets? Am I reading this correctly? Maybe I'm not following...
We actually signed Garrard in the offseason.... I know you love Sanchez, but try to pay attention to what's going on. You don't have a QB competition if you want the incumbant to start...you just don't. You don't draft and sign a vet if you wanted the incumbant to start. Sanchez is at best average. You don't draft someone 5th overall to play average. As for playing good against Jacksonville LOL. Jacksonville had a piss poor pass defense. Sanchez barely got 100 yards against them. Of the 16 teams Jacksonville played, Sanchez had the lowest passing yards against them. That's freaking pitiful.
I don't hang the 'D' out as much as you do but can agree on the STs. Feely's 2 FG misses at Indy (could've padded that 17-6 lead) and Wethersford's "Conley-esque" performance as well. That said, while letting Feely go wasn't the end of the world, Mike Westoff's short-sighted ego/temper got the better of him when it came to Wethersford. That was a very rash (stupid) move that Westy (because of his 'rep') got an undeserved pass for. Matt Dodge didn't turn out to be the upgrade to Brad Maynard like the NYG thought he would and as a result, Wethersford falls right into their lap. And the Jets? T.J. Conley, whom I said from day one was a sub-par bum whose Idaho (indoor) stats were padded and who was a major downgrade from Wethersford who was a much better athlete/kicker and who (as a still developing kicker) happened to have a bad stretch at a bad time. He sure as hell showed his worth in subsequent post season games with the Giants.
So the only thing he needs to work on is his fumbling? If his pocket presence was "above average" then he would have an idea where the rush was coming from and adjust. If he can read a defense he would be able to make adjustments at the line to account for the rush. You say hitting receivers in stride is bs? So you prefer if yards are left on the field because the receiver had to stop and go catch the ball. If his accuracy is fine he wouldn't over/under throw so many passes. IMO Sanchez is average at best in most areas. What does he do that's above average? You say he is good on roll outs and on slant passes but are we supposed to give him a cookie for being able to do something any competent QB should be able to do? He can't even throw a screen pass consistently.
Eli has had more talent yet has less playoff apps since mark entered the league, why would we assume he'd win more here? He had a 25 INT season w/ more talent on O than Mark has ever had. The difference btw the franchises has not been at QB.
The mistakes Sanchez makes really have NOTHING to do with the talent/coaching around him. He has very little situational awareness. Just a bunch of examples in no particular order or pattern 1. Buttfumble. No one is around him and he runs into his own guy. 2. Poor game management. Calling timeout with 25 seconds on the playclock in the NE game allowing Brady time to score before the half 2 years ago. 3. Failure to read defenses or recognize the blitz/rushers around him. 4. Continued abject failure to secure the ball. Way too many strip sacks compared to other QB's. 5. Failing to spot open receivers. Hill in the end zone in Seattle for a TD. Greene wide open in the flat for a 1st down in NE instead he throws the duck to Hill in the end zone which gets picked. 6. Inaccuracy. 7. Lack of pocket awareness. You can go on and on but none of these have anything to do with what is around him. These are things he can control and he has failed to improve at ANY of it in FOUR years so as a result you can't trust him to do so in Year 5. 643 pages of spin/deflection and denial by nyjunc/Hobbes won't change the fact that Sanchez poor play has lost a bunch of games this team had a real chance at winning. Yes, there are other factors involved in the wins and losses but the bottom line is you have to begin with what you as the QB can control and he has failed to step up or improve his game. As a result it's only a matter of time before Sanchez is finished here. Remains to be seen if Geno can be the long term guy but I'll take my chances on a young guy with better physical talent than Sanchez improving over a veteran regressing and failing to correct anything in 4 years. I defended Sanchez and didn't want him replaced for 3+ years and believed he could be the guy long term but he is no longer even remotely defendable. It wasn't until the Miami game at home last year where I began to believe he was not the answer. The Seattle game was further confirmation. The buttfumble continued the confirmation and the Tennessee/Arizona games were the final straws and the nails in the coffin of this guy. He's done and finished and the sooner Geno starts the better off this organization will be.
Not true. Pocket presence is terrible for a fifth year QB. He plays scared and makes poor decisions, like not throwing the ball away when he has to. Accuracy above average? Have you ever attended a live game in which you get a real sense of where the ball is being thrown? He turns perfectly good WRs into contortionists, trying to catch the ball behind them, off the wrong shoulder, at the ankles, 12' in the air. I've seen it with my own eyes in real time. I could almost forgive some of the accuracy issues if the ball had some zip on it. But no, in addition to being off the mark, they flutter, especially when he decides to throw off the wrong foot with a high arc. Perfect INT balls is what they are. I'll give you reading defenses so I give him a B in that category, but that's it. Stride thing is not horseshit. Accuracy and zip are a real problem. And the criticisms were not the same for Penny. Penny was accurate and would still be in the league had he not blown out his shoulder. He still had teh accuracy afterwards, but there was zero zip on the ball and his long-throw was extremely limited and everyone knew it, so they simply crowded the box knowing he couldn't keep them honest. But let's not compare Penny's criticisms with Mark's.... two different guys. Thank you for acknowledging this and you are correct about throwing into crowds. But that's not the "only one reason" Mark's job is in jeopardy. His job is in jeopardy because he sucks. Laughable. Let's say he cuts down on the fumbles. What do you do about the other mental mistakes (holding onto the ball too long, ill-conceived, ridiculous shovel passes, throwing into coverage, etc) or his inaccurate, fluttering passes earning him the "La máquina de la Interceptación de ánó" Award, The Interception Machine of the Year Award.
1. it was a bad play 2. bad decision, every QB makes them. That didn't mean the D should allow Brady to go 80 yds in under a minute. 3. It happens, it's hard to make good decisions when no one is open. 4. this is an issue. 5. every QB misses open WRs and while they may appear open to you or I we have no idea what he was seeing. 6. He's actually pretty accurate, don't confuse comp % w/ accuracy. 7. much of that has had to do w/ OL breakdowns and failure of receivers to get any separation/run correct routes. He has issues as most QBs do, he has many areas to improve but this game is about winning and he's been a winning QB in this league and has the 3rd most playoff wins since entering the league. His issues can be worked on, he has proven he can play and win in this league, we just need the right talent around him. Chances are he is done here but hopefully for him he goes to a good spot and he'll get another chance somewhere.
Your arguments are so generic they are meaningless. He and no problem hitting Holmes in stride. Hitting receivers in stride is combination of receiver , qb, line and he defense. Most of then time you have to throw to a spot and hope your recevier gets there. That requires timing famliarity good play design and good play calling. Have you forgot about WFH the turn style . Did you notice Holmes, hill, kerely, gates, Keller hurt last year. Have you noticed not having a number 1 receiver ever? You do not have like Sanchez but these generic arguments are just frustrating. Having to never allow a little complement for Sanchez is amazing. Playoff performance does not matter anybody could have got the jets farther yetwhen you look at his playoff stats the only ones ahead if him are hall of famers. I don't mind you hating Sanchez but having to reply with the negative to am Sanchez positive makes me think you are 12 or just believe everything the media says. mark has played well in this league mark had God game last year against impossible circumstances. The arguing is over they are now playing. Mark will be judged on bow he plays this season and all I ask I'd judge him Farley if he wins the job or not. At the end of the day Mark has more playoff wins that any other qb in jets history yet we think we can do better and we might it has not happened yet.
And if the QB is in his 5th season at 26 years old is competing for his job then that answers the question right there.
if Rivers wouldn't have held out in 2004 then Brees would have been competing for his job in year 4. Phil Simms competed for his job and LOST in year 5 then won it back in year 6.
