It's not a matter of opposing the thought of needing good talent around a QB, it's a matter of opposing the argument that a player needs elite performers around him in order to just be average, and in marks case Average is something he's never met. But here's the thing, A good QB makes those around him better. A good QB can take recievers who've never done anything in their careers and they have very good years when they join a team with a top tier QB, but go back to being mediocre receivers when away from that QB. There are a very limited number of receivers who make their QB's better, and I mean very limited number, due to their ability to pull in bad throws. There's maybe 8 of those in all of the NFL. The better Qb's in the league it doesn't matter who they have to throw to, they'll make those receivers better. In order for an argument like yours to work you would have to say that in every year of Sanchez's career he's had the worst talent around him of any QB in the NFL over the 4 year span, because sanchez pretty much ranks Dead last, or near dead last, in every meaningful category over that span of time.
I said that Sanchez shouldn't get the MAJORITY of credit, acting like HE was the comeback kid in 2010 or something. Denver - 4th down at midfield, with the Jets down by 3 near the end of the game. Sanchez throws a desperation pass to Santonio Holmes. Pass interference is called for 46 yards, then Tomlinson runs the ball in for a TD...boy, that's some pretty exciting clutch play by the QB, huh? Led the team to a comeback and everything? Cleveland - Lucky the Jets forced a fumble when the Browns were in fieldgoal range in overtime. The "comeback" in this game was basically a 1-play drive, where the Jets get the ball at the Browns 37-yardline. Sanchez throws a very short rinky-dink garden-variety pass to Santonio Holmes, who takes off with it into the endzone near the end of overtime. Were you impressed by that pass? Or were you more impressed with the run after it? Holmes gets the majority of credit in my book. Detroit - in overtime, Sanchez throws about a 15-yard pass to Santonio Holmes, who found the soft spot in the zone and runs for another 40 yards. This is what I'm talking about. Good play by Sanchez, but I give Holmes the majority of the credit for that play, which set the Jets up for a game-winning fieldgoal. Houston - the Texans had the worst pass defense in the league in 2010. With the Jets down by 1 with 2 minutes to go, Sanchez throws an INT...a bad one, and the Texans get the ball around the Jets 10-yardline, and the defense holds them to a fieldgoal. But now the Jets need a touchdown instead of a fieldgoal. However, I give Sanchez a lot of credit...the majority of credit...for that pass to Braylon, and also for the nice touchdown pass on a fade route to who else? Santonio Holmes. Indy playoffs - Cromartie runs the kickoff to near midfield. The importance of that run-back cannot be ignored. Sanchez completes a few passes, one of which was kind of impressive under the circumstances...the one to Edwards on his back shoulder where only he could catch it. I give him credit for that drive, although I think he was lucky to be in that spot in the first place for a number of reasons. All I'm saying is that Sanchez was not really the comeback kid that year. You can make the same claim about Tebow a couple of years ago in Denver, really. Do you think that claim would be more accurate? Besides that, I would like to see your list of games where Sanchez shit the bed in 2011 down the stretch or other times. Are you talking about a magical quality about the man? If so, that cannot be relied upon as a general rule, as we've already seen...especially if he doesn't play reasonably consistent under normal conditions. He doesn't. Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt in every Jets come-from-behind victory, being clutch does not make up for being solid through entire games. Not over time.
Its a very simple point. Where is he being asked to throw the effing ball Outside the numbers, not nside the hashes..and down the field. Change that formula, change your QB. In 2011, they were second best in the NFL, in the toughest part of the field. Same player. Guess thats a statistical anomaly. Youguys love Geno. Chart his throws. Its the Testaverde syndrome, all over again. Long developing pass plays, holding on to the ball, giving the defense a chance to discount underneath routes. Especially in2012. 41 passes to the backs, are you shitting me? Mornhinweg, is..,the game changer.
LOL. Your guide for success for our "franchise QB" is to just have him throw inside the hashes and with no long throws? Yeah, that wont get our receivers killed or wont be easy for the defense to defend. Its hard to understand that you can defend a QB who you dont even believe can throw outside the hashes or down the field. Isnt the judgement of an NFL QB throws outside the hashes? Speaks volumes of you lack of ability to be objective. Oh yeah, and forget about adding more screens and passes to the backs, because we all know how great Sanchez is at that. Btw, have you even watched Geno Smith play? Because the only "scouting report" you've given was regurgitation of Mike Mayock on a throw at his pro day.
Tom Brady says hello. You keep making the retarded argument, about ONLY throwing in a given area. For the nine thousandth time, Its the RATIO of throws to given areas. But hey, I guess you know more than Bill Walsh, thats why you are a hall of fame coache and he isn '.....nevermind.
2nd best in the nfl at what? Redzone efficiency? wrong, I've addressed that Sanchez, among NFL QB's was the 13th Ranked QB in the redzone in terms of Quarterback efficiency. source http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-rating-in-red-zone/2011/ it's true that the Jets did rank in the top 2 in terms of scoring a touchdown when in the red zone as a team, but the fact is they were in the redzone LESS than just about any other team in 2011. Additionally statistically flexuations from year to year in that column are especially volatile, even with elite offenses leading them, a 20% change from year to year is not uncommon. But ignore that for now, as I'm sure you will, the Jets were the #2 team in red zone TD scoring that season, but they ranked 12th in scoring, which means they didn't reach the Redzone a whole lot and when they did they were over achievers for the most part. When your talking a sample size of 24 examples every chance moves the dial up or down by roughly 5%. And regarding your other argument, despite playing in a short passing game, you know the highest percentage passes, Sanchez Still has never completed 57% of his passes, and only once eclipsed 55% and despite playing the safest passing game in the league with short passes STILL turns the ball over at an alarming rate. Hint, if you can't thrive in a short passing game your not going to survive anywhere. If you've truly watched Sanchez play you know he's very often off target, late with deliveries, and very prone to locking on to one receiver. His throws often leave receiver's out to dry and if he were playing QB 10 years ago he'd have his receivers getting killed in the middle of the field....
Heres a link that actually works. http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2012-02-05 Right. They didnt get to the end zone enough. But. They only brought in a consultant for that reason. Better coaching, and philosophy, and...remind me again, what was Sanchez qb rating, comparative to the other 80 yards? Plus roughly 20 points? Did I get that wrong? yes, 92. In the toughest part of the field. Plus he ran in 6 more scores. Coaching.system.Player. They brought in Moore, adjustments were made, player became successful. Real difficult to see. and..P.S. what short passing game was Sanchez playing in? Schotty doesnt have one, by his own admission, and Sparano even less. arguments are good things, making stuff up that the coordinator in question admits, is silly.
Tom Brady is accurate with his throws, quick to deliver the ball, and reads defenses exceptionally well....you know, all the things Sanchez does very poorly. And despite your argument Brady typically throws between 10-15% of his passes 20 yards or more in the air and spreads his throws just about perfectly evenly, as even as statistically realistic, Between left side, right side, left side line, right sideline, middle with about an even number of attempts going to each portion of the field. That's a result of reading defenses, seeing where the good match is and making the play quickly and accurately. Sanchez by comparison throws the majority of his passes from the middle to the right side of the field. Sanchez also throws about 10-15% of his passes longer than 20 yards, but his success rate in every year has been below 40% and in 3 of 4 years has been closer to 30% than 40%. Brady by comparison on the 21-30 yard throws, the same ones Sanchez can't break 40% on Brady routinely is over 50%. You do realize that by trying to compare Sanchez to elite QB's you only make your argument for Sanchez even weaker.
You still don't get it do you, by selecting a single stat that reflects a small percentage of plays each example provides a variable of roughly 5%. Even elite QB's have that number go up and down by 15-20% every season. The fact that for one season Sanchez was 20% above his statistical norm is in reality a success failure difference of 4 examples. Just 4 outcomes changes the entire picture by 20%, just 4. I suggest reading the following statistical article, though I doubt you'll follow it very well. But I'll quote the conclusion here then the link. "From this, it appears that despite all analysis to the contrary, there is nothing special about any particular quarterback's ability inside the red zone as compared to outside the 20. It's simply a random subsample of overall performance." http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/01/is-red-zone-performance-real.html In reality such a small sampling is very random in nature regarding its outcome and is subjective. And as has been pointed out before, when Moore Joined the club in the box in the last quarter of the season Sanchez's TD's went down and his Interceptions went up.....are you still sure you want to tie your horse to Moore's influence?
How much crap do you need to make up? The entire construct of the Pats offense, is to ELIMINATE reading the defense. (dont retort, Matt Cassell says hello) Just so you can stop that particular argument, which is beyond nonsensical, here is the crux of it. http://www.westcoastoffense.com/bill walsh article 1.htm You are welcome. Yes, wes welker the pats leading reciever was catching all tthose balls down and outside fcol.
And Hobbes, it's really easy to tie a fantasy to one small sample example. But red zone scoring is really a misleading stat, from year to year a QB who does well on the first 80 yards of the field will do equally well in the last 20 yards. There are always statistical anomalies, and until Sanchez show's otherwise a 2011's TD totals were a statistical anomaly, just like Maris's 61 homers.
I'm not making anything up here Hobbes, unless you want to argue that ESPN.com splits are incorrect for players. and I looked at both Brady and Sanchez for the past 4 seasons....go ahead, look for yourself. Regarding the WCO, a lot of teams run it, but only teams with good QB's succeed at it. You know the WCO requires accuracy, a quick delivery, and the ability to read the field. you know, 3 things Sanchez doesn't do well.
Oh and I really really really have to address this specific part, watch Brady before the snap on EVERY play, he's reading the defense pre snap and adjusts the play Prior to the snap....that is the ability to read a defense in it's most base form.....the Patriots success DEPENDS on the ability of the QB to recognize the defense and the mismatches. Something Brady, and most other top end QB's do very well.
As 1968 said, Mark Sanchez is NOT Tom Brady. They dont even have a remotely similar skill set. Brady can read defenses remarkably well (which is why even Rex has a hard time covering up blitzes), he has a quick release and is about as accurate as you can ask for within 30 yards. He also has great pocket presence for a guy with limited movement skills. Sanchez has a hard time reading defenses and coverages well, he lacks good anticipation, his mechanics have broke down as the years have went on and his accuracy is amongst the bottom of the league. And please done even say that bullshit that Tom Brady isnt asked to read a defense. Thats just nonsense. You dont become a top 3 QB of all time by not being able to read a defense exceptionally well. I personally dont understand the argument for having Mark throw a higher percentages to the inside of the field, being that it is the most congested part of the field. You bring up Brady, but even he had the highest percentages of his throws go to the sideline, with the least being the middle. Also, you bring up the idea of having a poor OL... If you want to throw crossing routes or seam routes or drags, those usually take longer to develop than outs or curls, which would in turn cause your OL to need to block longer. You cant expect a large percentage of your throws to be quick slants to the middle, otherwise your receivers are going to get killed and CBs are going to start sleeping on those throws. I even looked at Peyton's splits from this year, and even with a weaker arm, he had a MUCH higher percentages go to the sideline rather than the middle. Russel Wilson- 80%. Peyton Manning- 75%. Cam Newton- 74%. Andy Dalton- 80%. Joe Flacco- 80%. Andrew Luck- 74%. Matt Ryan- 91%. RG3- 80%. Matthew Stafford- 79%. Eli- 73%. Kevin Kolb- 78%. Mark Sanchez- 59%. Theres your completion percentages for passes behind the LOS. I tried to choose a variety of QBs, and a good amount without great pass catching RBs (Dalton, Luck, Ryan, RG3, Stafford, Manning(s)...) so that there was no Shonn Greene bull shit. There are the stats. Generally, most QBs are over 74%, even those without quality RBs. To think that having more passes behind the LOS and over the middle is idiotic. And to average the other years in Sanchez's career, he's around 68, which is still a good amount lower than the majority with poor pass catching TEs. His average passer rating is also a 70 for all years and 1-3 TD-INT ratio. I just dont get it, why do you keep stringing this out? 1968 has just about destroyed any argument you have tried to come up. Some of your posts are getting hard to read.
Probably should point out that most teams that employ the west coast offense isn't the same type of west coast offense that Walsh ran. With todays passing rules there are a lot more passes thrown down field and a lot more passes outside the hashmarks. Just because it's termed the WCO doesn't make it Walsh's ball control based WCO variant. But lets focus on Sanchez's big year in the red zone in 2011. opp 49-20 53% completion rate, 5 TD 5 INT opp 19-goal 53.2% completion rate 21 td 3 INT opp 10-goal 47.1% 12 TD 1 int you can see that his completion rates were DOWN from even his career high completion percentage the only variable that changes from this season in question to the other seasons is inside the 10 yardline his completion percentage was better than other years2010 but other than that pretty much flatline within the normal 1-4% variance you expect from year to year. In other words, at this point in time you have to call it a statistical anomaly, nothing more. If it were truly due to a better system you would expect to see the other peripherals rise as well, but they stayed within the standard Noise variance.
hobbes, you do realize that the book on sanchez says dont let him complete the slant. make him throw a pass. maybe THAT is why he didnt throw 100 slants a game. that is the ONLY pass he can throw well, they figured it out and took it away from him and he was left exposed as a poor qb.
Regarding Sanchez's 2011 QBR of 89.1. Here are just some of the teams with better QBR in 2011 in the red zone. It show's you how worthless the red zone rating really is. Vikings led by Christian Ponder and McNabb 106.7 Titans led by Hasselbeck and Locker 103.8 Bengals led by Dalton 101.5 The Cardinals, yes THOSE Cardinals, 98.7 The Bills 89.6 The Redskins led by Rex Grossman 89.1 Tied with Sanchez. So you see that number really is misleading, as is the whole Red zone Quarterback efficiency illusion.
Personally considering that over 50% of Sanchez's passes are under 10 yards I'm still wondering how the hell you get slow developing routes on plays behind the LOS or 1-9 yards.
No one will expect that because the jets once again will have no offense Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2
