Celtics big 3 - major difference. You're talking about 2 guys who were just exiting their prime, while you have 3 guys in Miami who just entered, 1 of which is the best in the entire league. Comparing that celtics big 3 to this Miami big 3 isn't even fair.
Both big 3s came together for the goal of winning championships. Both have made 2 finals, winning 1 and losing 1. KG and Pierce were still solid players in 2007 when they came together, same with Ray Allen too. If Wade continues on his down turn, he went from exiting his prime to role player from 09-12 while it took Pierce 07-13 for that to happen. If you get together and win a title, I can't call it a failure. I can call it a disappointment especially if Lebron walks because Wade falls off a cliff.
when you have 3 of the top 15 players in the NBA on the same team, all under 30, and you win only 1 championship, that is a failure. Now you can argue who is a top player and who isn't, fact is, prior to all 3 coming together, all 3 were top 10 players. All 3 are capable of being top 10 players, 2 of which are/were capable of being top 5 players. We will just have to agree to disagree. You don't talk about winning 6/7/8 rings and only win 1.
I mean are we taking pep rally comments seriously? I enjoy poking fun at the not 1, not 2, etc comment but I understand it wasn't serious and was at a pep rally. I find it ridiculous people act like that is some sort of bar to base Miami on. Except Bosh hasn't played like top 15 player. Bosh hasn't made an all NBA team in his 3 years at MIA and Wade has made the 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd. Paul/Griffin, Westbrook/Durant, Duncan/Parker are all teammates this year that were on 1st and 2nd teams. It's not the best way to judge players, but it's pretty accurate to see where Wade is in the league. I get where you are coming from, but since they won a title I find it hard to consider it a failure. I would rather go with disappointment than failure.
Chris Bosh is/was not a top 10 player or a top 15 player. LeBron and Wade were, not Bosh. Bosh was just the focal point of the offense on a team that stunk. The Raptors made the playoffs twice in his seven seasons there, and they lost in the first round both times. Another Paul Pierce (career loser like Bosh, before Celtics/Heat stacked the deck). Good player? Yes. Top player, no.
they were certainly serious about the idea that they would dominate the NBA over a long stretch of time and win multiple titles. you can maybe argue that they shouldn't be taken literally, and had they won only 3 or 4 there really is no grounds to criticize them fro not winning 6 or 7 or 8, because 3 or 4 is still a dominant amount of titles, but to say their boasting had no meaning at all because it was a pep rally and isn't the bar they set for themselves is simply dishonest. If they win another title, I think the pairing was a success, because anytime a team can win multiple titles within a short period of time that is a starting point for the discussion of greatness. but to say that they shouldn't be held to that criteria, and one title for that group is enough, and their comments should be completely disregarded, is ludicrous.
I'm not saying one title is enough, I'm saying one title is enough to avoid the move being called a failure. I just don't see how you can call a move a failure if they win a title. And yeah I think you can disregard a comment made at a pep rally for the fans. I mean should we take CP3s wedding toast seriously that he was joining Melo on the NYK? It was a comment at a pep rally, if he said it in an actual interview for TNT or ESPN or something like that, I would hold it more seriosuly. Obviously their goal was to win a title every year together, it's every players goal. Right now if they max out at one title, I think it's disappointing for the Heat but I don't think it's a failure. I just can't get behind the idea that winning a title is a failure Again I'm holding them to the idea they should win multiple titles, hence it's a disappointment if they end up with 1 title. I just think using the not 6, etc comment as the bar to hold them to is silly. Using actual NBA stuff would be better
I have to laugh at the over-reactionary media and fans in the IND-MIA series. Miami wins and they are "unstoppable" two days later, IND wins and Miami's falling apart and their run is over.. yada yada. It's just 2 good teams battling it out, win some, lose some. Every game isn't so momendous or anything, jeez. I dislike Miami, but it's going to be pretty funny when they win by 20+ tonight, then cruise by the Spurs to repeat. It's going to be hilarious when all these pundits which declared Miami's big 3 dead, flip the script and start calling them one of the greatest dynasties and what not. That's the problem with the NBA, it's too much about entertainment than anything else. Unfortunately, the NFL is following down the same path and our Jets are one of the main culprits.
I cant view the Celtics as a failure because the won a championship. But for all the talk they have received, they did underachieve imo. People have given them the respect as if they were a dynasty, they arent though. I think they would have repeated in 09 but it is what it is, they are 1 time champions. Nothing wrong with that, they did get a lot of hype though over the years.
The series has gone MIA, IND, MIA, IND, MIA, IND. After each win, like you said MIA is done, IND is gonna win, etc etc. I do think the Wade thing is accurate though. His injury is clearly bothering him and he's been banged up for 2 straight years now it seems. He might actually be slowing down as a player because the constant in the series/season/playoffs has been his game becoming much different and trying to get away from athleticism as the main reason he is scoring.
Exactly, if you win a title, I can't say the move was a failure. The Celtics hung around a while. While the Perkins injury hurt them, the also benfited from Bynum being hurt the year before. Also they blew 3-2 series leads to the Magic, Lakers, and Heat over the past few years. They were a solid team but their run in the East was good but not on the level of the Pistons in the early 2000s
The Celtics will be forgotten. The 90 pistons and rockets dont get forgotten because they did win multiple championships. Teams like the Pistons, Mavericks, Celtics of the last decade will not be remembered the same way you think of other great teams throughout the years. They all went to 2 finals and only won 1. 1 is still better than none though.
Of course. Although some teams like the Jazz with Stockton and Malone might be remembered more than the Pistons of 2004 for what they couldn't get than what the Pistons got.
Yeah I hear ya, I just think 20 years from now when people think of the celtics, people will be like "oh wait they only won 1 title". It validated them as good, but nothing special liker past champions.
It depends how they view the Celtics. The one title might just be swallowed into the whole Celtics mystique and lore or people might separate the Celtics titles and realize the Pierce one was a blip in a good era for the Celtics after a bad one and they haven't reached the levels of past success. Also J Kidd retired. Him and Grant Hill were co rookies of the year right?
I read a good article in the Orlando Sentinel. Duncan was on the verge of joining the Magic but because Doc Rivers wouldnt allow Duncans girlfriend(who he recently divorced) on plane trips for road game, Duncan decided to stay in San Antonio. I guess they brought Duncan to disney in the after hours, they were loving Orlando, but because of that one small stipulation, Duncan did not join McGrady, Grant Hill and Doc Rivers in Orlando back in 2000. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...o-magic-duncan-and-hill-magic-gm-john-gabriel
I disagree. I don't think that Pistons team will be forgotten at all. People might not remember Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Prince or any of the other guys on that team but they will remember that they beat the Lakers in the middle of their dynasty. One that had 4 Hall of Fame players in Malone, Kobe, Payton and Shaq. The Pistons didn't just win that series but they shocked the world. That is still one of the biggest upsets in Finals history. You're a Spurs fan so you should remember that the Pistons also made it back to the Finals the very next year and then made 3 straight conference finals after that. They were no pushover team.
