In 2009 there was a pass rusher that was 6'3, 240 pounds that had 4.5 sacks his senior year. Some guy by the name of Clay Matthews.
I love Mingo. Why? Because he is a very fast and a fluid athlete. That's what you need in the modern NFL. He can get to the passer. Both Jordan and Jones have had more injuries, especially Jones, who is not that athletic. Look at what the Jets did last year with Coples. He underproduced in college, only to emerge with the Jets. So don't draft past production - you are not building a college team. That's why you go with Mingo.
Just because he is a great athlete, it doesnt mean it translates to a great football player. Aaron Maybin is a great athlete, how'd that workout? Terrell Suggs isnt a great athlete, but he's a great football player. Same with James Harrison, Elvis Dummervil, Jared Allen, Shaun Phillips, Ryan Kerrigan, Tamba Hali, Paul Kruger... [YOUTUBE]dIms6ImVG6w[/YOUTUBE] I personally do not see anything in these 5 games that warrant a top 9 pick.
So Aaron Maybin didn't pan out so I guess we should avoid all athletes from now on right? That kind of annecdotal evidence doesn't fly. Btw, almost all the players you listed are slower but play at a big size. Also, Mingo will be playing as a 3-4 OLB, not a 4-3 defensive end. He will have a lot more space to use his speed and length. One of the biggest problems with the defense in recent years has been lack of speed and inability to cover tight ends. Mingo will be able to help in that regard.
Mingo has close to no experience covering in space. It doesnt just take athletic ability to cover. And Im not saying avoid Mingo because of Maybin. Im saying avoid Mingo because of Mingo. And everyone I named aside from Jared Allen currently plays in a 3-4 defense as an OLB. Mingo in a nutshell would be drafted solely based on potential and athletic ability. His production doesnt warrant it, and he's still very raw. He has great bend, burst, hips and flexibility... But he also lacks a power move, size to set the edge, can be neutralized if a tackle gets his hands on him, and he misses a lot of tackles. He has the athletic ability to be great, but has a long way to go. For someone thats being looked at at the 9, Im just not a fan. He doesnt present value IMO there. If we trade back into the 17-22 range, sure I would be okay with that. He would be one of the few people I would be upset with there, but somehow someway I would come around to it and hope for the best. To say the least, he's not my ideal pick. But with a GM coming from a team that just drafted Bruce Irvin, I could definitely see him being the pick. Just wondering, whats your opinion on that game tape? What do you see?
He's a pick for the 2010 JETS to make.... 2013 JETS need safer solid bluechip guys, not High risk/Reward prospects......
God I hope we don't draft Mingo. Sorry the guy may be athletic, but can he set the edge? I'm taking Ansah all day before Mingo. Ansah is just as athletic, but he's bigger and stronger. Ansah at 9 and one of Warmack/Cooper at 13 and I'd be happy. Plus remember, Rex may not be the coach in 2014, so we might be in a 4-3 next year. Mingo definitely isn't big enough to play end in a 4-3.
Not to re-circle the wagons of this debate..but I really respect your opinion. Don't you think there is something to be said for ADDING an elite athlete to this defense? When you look at what the jets already have in the front 7, you see plenty of thick, physical guys built for run fits & gap assignments. In the modern NFL you have to have a couple athletes on your defense for match-ups & shear speed factor. The more physical players compliment/offset the athletes & vice versa. Right now the Jets don't have a single athlete. The quality traits you list for Mingo (bend, burst, hips and flexibility) are one's I agree w/. They're also some of the major traits MISSING from this Jets defense. Now does Mingo need to become a better overall football player in the meantime? He sure does. When you look at the total package he has the college pedigree to get better,he's been successful at every level dating back to high school,he has the frame/length to BECOME a more complete linebacker, & all indications are he has the work ethic.
I don't hate Mingo, the more I hear of Rex liking him, the more I start to like him. I still wouldn't take him in the top 15 though. In the high teens or in the 20s I would like the pick. Like others have said, no matter who we choose I'm going to end up rooting for them and over all liking the pick.
Okay, at times Mingo didn't look so great on the film, but there were other times where you could really see the athleticism. He his very fast. Speed intimidates. He quite a few times was able to chase down people from behind, block passes, etc. Put him on the same line with Coples and Wilk, and you've got a very intimidating front line. Not as intimidating with Jarvis Jones in there. I'd rather have exciting athletes than just a boring crop of "football players". Speed wins in the NFL. Not to say that college production doesn't count, but players who are "football players" seem to bomb just as often as the boom or bust prospects. So I would rather take the guy whose physical abilities are better suited to the NFL.
This is why this Mingo debate is so interesting in my mind. So many people hate Mingo because he represents a high risk/high reward player. But other than the guards, EVERY outside linebacker prospect represents high risk/high reward. Mingo may represent slightly more risk, but EVERY prospect has risk. The thing is getting TALENT. I remember when Aaron Curry went in the draft. Part of the reason he went 4th overall was because people considered him to be the least risky pick in the draft. Instead, in his 3rd year, he's traded to Oakland. Forgetting the offense for a second, the one thing this defense is missing is an athlete in the front seven. The Jets have been slow in the front seven for years. Davis helps at one spot, but they need more. Mingo adds athleticism and speed to a defense that sorely needs it. That doesn't mean there's not risk there, and he's got a lot of work to do. Carradine, Jones and Werner were far better college players, but Mingo has the highest upside of the group. Mingo has the potential to be exactly what this defense is missing. Carradine and Jones can rush the passer, which we sorely need, but we also need more speed. Mingo is exactly the TYPE of player this Jets defense sorely needs. Does that mean he'll be the most successful? I don't know, and I get there's risk there. But is there that much more risk in a guy like Jones? 240 pounds and a mediocre athlete. Bottom line, I'm not impressed with too many of these candidates at 9 or 13 offering the total package, so if you tell me that Rex thinks Mingo can be a star in this defense, and we take him, I can 100% buy that. More than anything else, I want a trade down, and take whichever one of these OLB prospects that fall further than they should.
Honestly, out of all of the "debates" in the draft, I personally think this Mingo debate is the most relevant and important. So many are tying the Jets and Mingo together, and its almost expected. This may actually be a bad thing for those who want him though because many draft picks are not the expected ones. I 100% understand that we need an athlete. Mingo is one... If we ran a 4-3, I might actually be more of a proponent for him because he could play OLB in that scheme (VERY similar to how Von Miller does) and his size wouldnt be that much of a concern. In a 3-4, you still need someone that can withstand the trenches and set the edge (also especially in Rex's 46 defense). As Jetfanmack said, all of these passrushers are flawed in a pretty large way, aside from Jordan. I suppose that out of all of them, I might be inclined to lean towards Mingo with some persuasion, but I just dont see his value at 9. Personally, I want this draft to be focused on offense and getting that side of the ball better. I want Tavon Austin badly for this team. If we ended up with Austin at 9 and Mingo at 13, I think I could be happy with day 1. As far as his tape goes though, I would really like for someone, anyone, to tell me what they see in those 5 games I posted. I see the athleticism, but I see so many flaws as well. His inability to disengage blocks scares me. His reliance on speed and the lack of a power move scares the shit out of me. The fact that he admitted to taking plays off is a cause for concern. His drop in production is also a cause for concern, especially because his playing time increased (and I know he was asked to contain some, but he was still "unleashed" a large portion of his snaps). Also- if Rex wasnt the HC next year, would that change your view on Mingo?
What I see on those 5 game tapes is the elite ability to get out of his stance & get the edge. It sounds simple & short sighted..but that's the biggest thing missing from this Jets defense. I also think that when you go back & look at the more successful pass rush prospects(Von Miller/Clay Matthews Jr/Dwight Freeney/Terrell Suggs) over the last 10 years, the common theme has been ability on the edge/running the arc. Are there other pieces to the puzzle? 100% Yes. But it all starts w/ that speed rush around the arc which Mingo clearly can do. As for Rex being gone next season affecting my view..of course it does. Who better to hone those freakish athletic skills than Rex? My confidence in him becoming a very good 3 down player would greatly suffer.However, I'd still be comfortable w/ taking him based on 2 factors. 1. We'd still have Rex's blessing on Mingo as a hyrbid player. Rex may not know everything but he knows defense & he knows pass rushers. With all the trouble the Jets have had finding a consistent speed rush when they finally pick one it will come w/ Rex's approval. That means something. Now doe he like Mingo? We'll see. 2. Although I'd worry over his 3 down capability w/o Rex..for the reasons listed above I still think he will be a good pass rusher. At worst he's still a legit pass rusher who happens to be undersized & struggle vs. the run. Legit pass rusher is a legit pass rusher.
Yea if Rex is gone after next season but he is able to coach up Mingo and Coples to be better players and Wilkerson continues to improve, the football skills that he teaches them will be adaptable to any situation.
Would You Like Mingo at 9? I have been hearing non stop about us probably taking Mingo at #9. I am really upset about this because I feel there is a big possibility he could be a bust. He is also extremely raw. I would hate to grab another project guy as a first pick. With all the talk about the Jets loving Mingo and a majority of the mocks showing us taking him, how would you feel if he was selected at 9? I want to see what the overall consesus is on here.
LOL Same way I feel. It's making me worry with all this talk of us taking him. It's all obviously speculation, but it still bothers me LOL
Well it depends on who is available but I wouldn't mind it, depending on who is available again. I'd rather have Jones personally and I'm kind of on the fence about Ansah as far as pass rush goes. Wouldn't be against picking up Warmack or Cooper as well, but maybe at the 13th
