Fight fire, with Fire. Part of Just punishment for crime, is also the piece we like to refer to as deterrent. Being put to sleep, is not a deterrent for those inclined to specifically inflict horror to advance a political cause. Hammurabi got it right And while your response, was predictable, and...erringly high minded...its curious to note you didnt answer the question.. Whats the appropriate measure of Justice? And PS..spare me the leftist namecalling bs until I start calling for the execution of unbelievers.thats Wahabbism. It also appears your knowledge of Sharia is a little weak...it allows for stoning women to death for being unfaithful, it also allows for beatings, as long as you dont mar the face. Yes, thats punishment fit the crime. The next time you decide to cast aspersions..at least have the sense to know what youre talking about. I apologize for offending your very liberal sensitivities with my post...but...i would expect someone of your intellect to at least not be so egregiously errant in namecalling.
Did you forget what happened in Norway? 70+ people murdered by the blonde haired blue eyed lunatic. Does that not count because it didn't happen in the States? Did you forget about the OKC bombing which is coming up on the anniversary of? How many children died in that horrific event? You seem to automatically dismiss the thought that this could be domestic.
My derision, was not based on knowing the guilty party, it was based on VJ softpeddling what the article said. In OKC 6 kids were killed..i am not sure what your point is....domestic or foreign, makes no difference to me, my point is....the two pulled off the plane, were not speaking a 'foreign' language. In fact the article doesnt say that and the poster is in fact posting fake news to make a political point.
Lethal injections feels like the easy way out... Obviously there was a time people were crucified or burned on a frying pan. Take your pick, but those are inhumane things so...
People speak Arabic, those people also fly. It doesn't mean that planes should be turned around and head back to the gate.
If it was any of the known terrorist groups a video would be on the internet already claiming their jihadist virtues etc..this smacks of a smaller domestic cell using Patriots day to make their "statement"
When you fight fire with fire you get everybody's house in flames at the end. Wahhabism is an unerringly conservative movement that is designed to promote law and order. The laws it promotes are designed to maintain the status quo forever and to discourage people from trying to supplant those above them on the ladder. The judges that Wahhabism promotes are not interested in justice. They don't care if the innocent are killed along with the guilty. All that they care about is that the law is adhered too and order is maintained. They're not willfully cruel or arbitrary but they also do not go searching for the truth when a well-placed and convenient lie is placed in front of them. They designate horrible punishments for simple crimes, not because those punishments will lead to fewer future crimes but because those punishments maintain order. They'd waterboard everybody put in front of them for even the slightest offense if they thought it would promote order and maintain the powers that be, the powers from which their authority ultimately flows. So the next time you hear about a girl being stoned because some guy raped her, just remember that the judge who ordered the punishment would happily gouge out a suspected terrorists genitals if he thought it would promote law and order.
Well, given the events of the day...i would put it like this. Id rather be inconvienienced. Than dead. But, hey..,thats just me. Id feel no different than those poor fucks on the plane when JayZ and Beyoncee circumvented security.
I never said suspected. Convicted. Justly tried, duly guilty. We're pretty good on that count....(though not perfect,ill concede to save you the trouble)...but hey...we have a president that assassinates by drone, and who cozies up to known bombers, so wheres the outrage? They catch this killer, there is no punishment thatcan be correctly described as inhumane,
So in your world view it would be ok to: 1. catch the guy we think did it. 2. Spend millions of dollars prosecuting him. 3. Watch him get inadequate counsel because he didn't have millions of dollars to defend himself. 4. Try him in front of a jury pre-disposed to convict him because of the circumstances of the crime and the victims involved. 5. Find him guilty. 6. Torture him to death in some really horrible way to prove that we're somehow superior to the culture that produced him. Really? In the perfect world in which justice, law and order all mingled in the same proportions, with a god's-eye view of the case to prevent mistakes, and in which the defendant had access to the same resources as the prosecution and in which the jury were all unbiased saints who had the interests of justice, law and order all appropriately taken into account, well in that world you might be right. Except for the proving we're better than militant Islam thing of course...
Do you get all this stuff from The New republic? Really? Inadequate counsel? Cmon man...like the inadequate counsel afforded Omar Rahman that was later found guilty of passing information to his terrorist co conspirators? You make the craziest lefty argument, by implying we get som Johhnys school of law recent graduate to defend scumbags like rhis, when in fact, they get access to legal counsel 99 percent of america couldnt afford. Thats one. Now, youve impugned the basic decency and intelligence of every American qualified to serve on a jury. Yes, you must be a proud liberal. All americans are unintelligent scumbags. Thats two. Catch the guy we THINK did it? Wouldnt we catch him...if there was enough evidence to prove he did it? Or are you suggesting we would just grab some swarthy guy of the street....? Now youre impugning American Law Enforcemnt as well Thats three. Millions of dollars? So justice has a price?...its funny because I missed your outrage when Fitgerald rang up 7 digits PERSECUTING Scooter Libby, and Locking up Judith Meyers, when he knew almost immediately that it was Powells boy Armitage, that leaked Plame. Thats four. Cant speak to finding hom guilty, thats a jury. As to your last point..it goes back to my original point...we do not have an adequate deterrent for these monsters. Hey, put away the rusty dental implements...solitary, and cancer or aids works just as well. But putting someone to sleep, to make ourselves feel high minded, is not just to that dead little boy, or the 6 dead in Oklahoma. It just isnt. I am far more libertarian in my beliefs than I am conservative, but...once a line is crossed, it should not be crossed with impunity
For me a domestic cell is even more scary as it will open up attacks such as seen in Northern Ireland and Mainland UK which are low scale but due to the lack of finance cause more damage as they are basic and barbaric in their creation....I just pray its one random lumatic
That's a little much to turn a plane around. I hope there were other reasons not just because they were speaking Arabic.
There's a reason that prosecutors have such high conviction rates. It does not have to do with the basic guilt or innocence of the people they try although that is a contributing factor. The reason they have such a high conviction rate is that in 99% of the cases they are working with a stacked deck, with resources the defense could not hope to match and with the coercive option of being able to force a defendant to choose between inadequately defending themselves or pleading to a lesser charge which they may or may not be guilty of. The adequate counsel that defendants in high profile terror cases receive is almost immediately overwhelmed by the extraordinary amount of resources brought to bear by the government in these cases. It doesn't matter if you have a good lawyer if the government is doing everything they can to overwhelm his or her ability to defend you and that is what goes on most of the time. Basic information that would be available to a good lawyer in most cases is withheld because of national security concerns or because it might hinder other potential prosecutions or investigations. The notion of discovery in a terror prosecution goes completely out the window as lawyers don't even attempt to get pertinent information in some cases because they know that it is going to be heavily redacted or withheld on national security grounds. Can you imagine a mafia trial in which the defendants were convicted on secret information that the government was unwilling to show in open court? Can you imagine that same trial with the co-operating witnesses not asked to testify, and in fact with the transcripts of their testimony redacted and altered almost beyond recognition because the government was protecting sources that it needed to continue watching other co-conspirators? I didn't impugn the basic decency and intelligence of every American qualified to sit on a jury. I just suggested that in an environment in which every news report after a tragedy like this goes back to "a Saudi national is being held" or "a dark-skinned man carrying a backpack was turned away" that the odds on finding a jury through all of that which could reasonably sit on a case impartially are low. Do you know how many Saudi students attend university in the United States each year? Do you know how many black high school and college students carry backpacks around Boston, MA on the average school day? We've created this monstrous public relations campaign in which being anything but lily white makes you a suspect any time anything bad happens. This despite the fact that most bad things that happen in the US that effect large numbers of people are perpetrated by lily white people. Not sure if the Saudi national in Boston was swarthy or anything but yeah we just kind of grabbed him off the street, with an injured leg no less, and sat on him in the hospital. If he'd been a white male student of the same age in the same place at the same time he'd never have been treated in that way. If you're not willing to discuss race and its effect on law enforcement in the context in which it actually occurs I understand that. It's embarrassing as hell that in America in the 21st century our culture is still so stuck on race and how it relates to the law and enforcement. The American criminal justice system is in crisis at the moment. It had issues in the past that were being slowly worked out of the system as we modernized but 9/11 really threw us for a loop. The Patriot Act was as bad for American liberty as the establishment of the camp at Manzanar in WWII. What's the point here? I agree with you that the ability of a prosecutor to influence events is much heavier than it ought to be. The entire system is out of whack and it's out of whack primarily because our government is full of lawyers, many of whom come from the prosecutor's office. Even when discretion is exercised appropriately, and that is likely in most of the cases, the presence of that discretionary power is out of proportion to the weight that one side of the scales of justice should have. There is no adequate deterrent for the acts that were committed on 9/11 or in Oklahoma City or at the WTC in '93 or in Boston on Monday. There just isn't. Becoming monsters ourselves isn't a deterrent. It just makes us monsters. There's no impunity involved. And you are not Libertarian if you are suggesting that overwhelming force will fix anything.
The bombs were pressure cookers filled with shrapnel which are typical of middle eastern devices in previous incidents. So chances are this was an international attack and not a domestic terrorism case, and two bombs would indicate at least 2 conspirators
middle eastern devices but could easily signal a cell trained in US. IF this was Al Qaeda or Taliban after alll the recent hits they would have sung from the rooftops
Anger is a natural response to pain and fear, but there's enough hate and anger and general nastiness in the world already. This is not the time nor the place for more. This all makes me ill.
