Actually you can make fairly accurate assumptions on different era's by projecting and comparing the league norms and where each QB fit in the league norm's of the era in which they played. The passing game rules in the NFL have changed so much over the past 50 years and it has made the passing game much more friendly. Take your examples 3rd season where he threw for 4,007 yards. That was a record number of yards for a season that stood from 1967 till 1979, and it was done in a 14 game season, and it beat the previous record by 300 yards, or 7.5% greater than the previous record. It took 10 years for anyone to get even close to within 100 yards of that record. In the 60's the league average for completion percentage was right around 50%. Today's games and rules it's a little over 62%. The rise in passing came as a direct result of rules changes made between the 1977 season and onward that really opened up the passing game. So yes, you can make comparisons by comparing the QB to the league averages of those he played with.
In the 60's the league average for completion percentage in the AFL was well under 50%. 1965 - 45.3% 1966 - 46.3% 1967 - 47.6% 1968 - 47.5% Joe Namath was one of the reasons that the completion percentage was on the rise in the AFL because he threw a lot of passes and he completed more than all but a couple of QB's in the AFL in that era. His completion percentage normalized by era would have been about 65% in today's terms.
You seem to be still stuck on eras. This was not intended to be an argument about eras, and by the way, co-mvp? There's is no achievement record for that. He had 14 TD's and 17 INT's - .... I don't care what era that is, you have more INT"s than TD"s - you were pretty bad. Bottom line , yes Mark had a bad year, but the FACT is he took a half way decent team that was not at all intended to even get that far to begin with, to the AFCCG. Can you please point out any media predictions that year that expected the Jets to go to the AFCG? I don't think you will find it. It's amazing, how so many football viewers can look at a team two different ways ---those that see one way can't be convinced it was Mark that has to get some of the credit. I have yet to see a team with a 'lousy' QB take a team to the AFCCG, 2 years in a row no less. I really give no credence to individual stats..the stats I showed were only to provide a way to show how stats can skew what should be judged from accomplishments with the team.
If you give him the credit for taking us to two championships, you should you give him the blame for not taking us to the playoffs for the last two years?
This is wrong. In the late 60's in the AFL there were far more interception thrown than TD's. In 1968, the year Namath was MVP and an All-Pro the AFL threw for 189 TD passes total and 227 Interceptions. In 1968 there were only two QB's in the AFL that threw more TD passes than Interceptions as a starter. Daryle Lamonica and Len Dawson. The Football Writers picked Joe Namath over both of them as the best QB in the AFL and the league MVP. You need to stop posting on this because you're posting with your heart and not your head. Trying to compare Mark Sanchez to Joe Namath in his prime is a hopeless cause and it just makes you look clueless about how things worked then and work now.
Thought it was but didn't have time to look it up to be 100% certain so I played it safe with my numbers
65% today would have been good for 4th best in the NFL w/ 32 teams. Joe's highest comp % season he was 2nd in a league w/ 9 teams and 65% is only 3 percentage pts behind the leader, in that year he was 2nd he was 5 percentage pts behind the leader. I didn't read far back enough. I'm sure you didn't bring it up but it is silly to compare comp % from that era to today. Joe was top 5 in comp % in the AFL for 5 seasons, he was top 5 in INT in the AFL 5 times and top 5 in the NFL 4 times.
He didn't carry us to two title games, he was a part of 2 championship game teams. He hasn't carried us down to 6 wins but he was a part of it.
Well, before the knee injuries in the NFL Namath was above average in completion percentage every year, usually by 2 or 3 points and below average in interception percentage, often by a point or more. The difference in eras just cannot be overstated in terms of figuring out what meant what vs today. In his rookie season in 1965 Namath had a 4.4% interception percentage, which sounds horrible from a 2012 perspective. The only full time QB who had a lower percentage that year was Tom Flores in Oakland at 4.1% and the Raiders had the fewest yards passing in the AFL that year. From 1966 to 1969 Namath had interception percentages of 5.7, 5.7, 4.5 and 4.7, which again sounds horrible by today's standards. However the numbers were average to below average each year and again in 1968 and 1969 Namath was among the league leaders in lowest interception percentage. We see Namath as a huge risk-taking QB with a high risk/high reward payoff in his prime. In fact he was a very normal QB in terms of risks taken but got the huge payoffs anyway. That's why he was an All-Pro QB once but MVP twice. Think about that for a second, a QB who was not All-Pro but was named MVP. For reference on the MVP but not All-Pro as a QB, only Steve McNair has done that in 2003 in this age of great QB's.
Cute. C'mon junc, if you're going to keep dodging at least be original. You ripped off an ol' Toots Shor yarn about Ty Cobb: "How much would Ty Cobb hit today's pitching?" Toots Shor: "Oh maybe .310, perhaps .320" "310 you say? Is that all?" Toots Shor: "Remember, Ty Cobb would be 74 today." Bomber Jet, thanks for the comparison stats, but I think Br4d4y5ux's "different era" posts really put it into context. Besides passing stats, kicking stats also show how different the landscape was back then. When Namath came into the league in 1965, along with the lousy TD/INT ratio, almost as many FG's were missed than made. The league average was only 54.13%. Granted, a few 'kickers' were still guys playing regular positions (Lou Michaels, Lou Groza, etc) but even the kicking specialists of the day couldn't get a job kicking today with their meager stats. The best kicker's FG percentage in 1965 (Jim Bakken, STL) was 68%. The worst kicker in 2012 was David Akers at 69%. Today's worst would be first back in "that era." Lou "the Toe" Groza (who they name a kicking award after) only hit on 64% of his FGs. As for the kicking specialists, here are some 1965 stats from guys who had long NFL careers: Fred Cox, MN - 66% Don Chandler, GB - 65% Tommy Davis, SF - 63% Danny Villanueva, Dal - 59% Bruce Gossett, LA - 58% Mike Clark, Pitt - 58% Even the Jets SBIII leading scorer Jim Turner only hit on 59% of his kicks in 1965. In today's era it's a different world. In 2012, 18 kickers hit on 85% or more of their FGs, including 8 guys over 90%. What does this "apples to oranges" comparison have to with Sanchez/Namath? It's simply to show the relativeness of the two different eras. As for Namath, while he could force a throw with the best/worst of them, mostly they were due to his "I've got a gun" mentality. This post is not a knock on Mark. He's the Jet QB, why would I want to see him fail? But as far as the "eye test" goes, in this quick film clip below (Namath's sophmore season knocking the Pats out of the playoff), I see at the 1:38 mark a 'wow' factor (quick drop back, quick release and throw...Namath was Marino 1.0) that I've never seen on this level from Sanchez. I recall Mark's first pre-season bomb to David Clowney (made me almost forget the immortal Brett Ratliff-lol), the great, poised across-the-grain TD pass to Keller vs. SD and his playoff win at NE. But to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen's crack to Dan Quayle: "I've seen Joe Namath, and you're not Joe Namath." http://blip.tv/game7tv-the-locker-room/jets-knock-pats-out-of-playoffs-1966-4630238 As for that '69 playoff game vs. KC (the year after winning SBIII), while Namath had a lousy game he did bring the Jets back down the field twice at the end. With a 1st and goal at the 1, the Jet OL got stuffed on back-to-back plays by the Super Bowl IV winning KC 'D' which had a lot of All-Pros and some HOF'ers on it. On 3rd down, on a play action rollout, the blocking broke down and Namath got clobbered with the Jets settling for a game-tying chip shot FG by Turner. That said, the Jets had KC backed up at their own 10 yard line and the Jet secondary (which was average at best even during those winning seasons) had a Len Dawson to Otis Taylor pass burn them for 60 yards courtesy of the very so-so Jet CB Bill Baird and from there the game winning TD to Gloster Richardson, a total Jet defensive collapse. Namath again brought the Jets down the field at the end only to get screwed (forgotten big part of the game) on a disallowed TD pass to TD Pete Lammons (followed by the Sauer-Em Thomas breakup). Not Namath's best day by a long shot, but in the end he still came within a whisker of bringing them back and most likely another Super Bowl win against an overrated 10-point-favorite Viking team that got totally out-classed by KC 23-7. Lastly, fwiw, Sanchez is seen as a guy with woman. Namath was seen as a guy in woman ;-) jus sayin'
Poor Namath. I reallyliked watching him. But he was gimpy coming into the league. knee surgeries then were nowhere near what they are now. I would have liked to see him on a good set of pins.
It's not his "heart and soul" he needs to put into the competition, it's his brain. I admire his competitiveness but we've heard this kind of talk alot from him. Certainly, there's nothing wrong with the article or Sanchez's approach but that doesn't mean I find it promising. The time for talk is over and I'm not taking any of this fluff serious until I see results on the field.
I agree. The problem is his confidence. If the Jets really want to have Sanchez this year, they should send him to therapy. Also, the time to talk for him is over. Now it's produce or it's a pink slip for him.
One of the first plays I watched as a Jet fan on the old black and white TV in the kitchen was Joe Namath getting sacked and carted off the field. I remember everybody getting really quiet when that happened. It was 1970 or 1971 and the Jets championship chances had just gone out the window. I didn't actually see a Jet team play over .500 until 1981.
Agreed, he needs to take all that raw talent because he has a ton of it and improve that IQ and knowledge of the game. The 1st 2 years he was always told what to do, what he's reads were, etc.. and then when the ball was in his hands 100% he flopped and I think thats because he was making all the wrong reads Imagine Mark Sanchez's raw talent with the brain of Matt Barkley for example, you'd have a helluva QB
I go back to the old AFL. Guys like Al Dorow, Frank Tripucka and Babe Parilli. Namath was like a god when he came. I think the Cardinals drafted him in the NFL. Sure he was a bit of a gambler, but boy could he throw an out pass. I still remember that pass to Maynard against the Raiders in the AFL championship game. I heard a football guy say that day that the wind was terrible, and he put it on Don's fingertips into that wind. Then he turns into Mr. Conservative against the all-powerful Colts. I loved Namath. He did not have a long and successful run. But when he was good.....he did it with style.
Namath played drunk,stoned and injured. He wasn't the most accurate but he got the ball in the area in a hurry in any spot on the field. In today's rules that's good for 65% completion percentage and a ton of PI's.
