I love reading NYjunc's posts, they are very funny. I used to like reading Hobbes too, but that new avatar made me sick so I have him on ignore. Honestly, Sanchez is a joke who will be gone next year.
How many QBs have won 4 road playoff games? Less than those that have had success w/ under 2 years of play in college.
4 years of substandard play in the NFL isn't outweighed by 4 games of above average play in the playoffs. If you're looking for the primary reason the Jets won those 4 games the magic number is 16.25, that being the number of points per game the Jets defense surrendered over those 4 games. When your defense is allowing 5 points a game less than average against strong offenses your chances of winning those games are pretty damn good.
Sure it is, would you rather have 4 years of top 10 play from him and zero playoff wins? truly great defenses haven't won 2 PO games a year and ours was far from a great D. You still need quality QB play and we got that.
You mean would I rather he was looking like Peyton Manning after his first four seasons? Of course not. I'd much rather be going around in circles with you on whether the 35th rated QB in a 32 job league who has never been higher than 23rd is a good QB. Well, the Jets defense was as far from a top defense as #1 and #3 can get but I see your point. After all the Steelers didn't win two AFCCG's in 2008 and 2010 with Ben Roethlisberger completing 26 of 53 passes for 388 yards with 1 TD and 2 Int's. But, no, a top defense can't win the big game when the QB is sucking. 9 of 21 for 123 yards and 2 Int's in the Super Bowl will always be a loss.
Let's put peyton aside, there aren't many peyton Manning's in the history of this league. How about a Matt Schaub/Philip Rivers type? guys that put up good #s but can't play in big spots. what good are QBs like that? Pitt gets nowhere near the SB w/o Ben and the O averaging 29 PPG in their 3 AFC playoff games in 2005. Ben in 2010 was MUCH better than his #s, despite mark having much better #s Ben made plays to win the game. Back to peyton for a second. In playoff wins his D's have allowed 14.3PPG, Jets D's allowed 16.3 in their 4 playoff wins In playoff losses his D's have allowed 22.7 PPG, Jet D's 23.5
I notice your edit but Ben was 49-72, 680 yds, 7 TDs, 1 INT, 124.7 rating, led O's to 29 PPG. They don't make the SB w/o Ben playing really well, he sucked in the SB and the D played great. for one game that can happen but over 6 postseason games in 2 years? Not happening.
Have you ever heard of dain bramage? All you have to say is "Mark Sanchez sucks, but I'm a big Jets fan and supporter and so I choose to see him as a good QB." That's all it would take. Instead, well, dain bramage.
Round and Round we go. The argument is really not that hard but we are dug in on both sides I guess. Brad and Junc when you two dig in the arguments just become more ridiculous on both sides. 2009- Mark played Ok for a Rookie and played well above average for a rookie in the playoffs. 2010- We saw an up and down Sanchez with some brilliance moments to get the team to 11-5 and played great in the playoffs. 2011- He struggled to take a step and struggled coming down the stretch. Maybe he was hurt but his weapons and o-line took a big step back. 2012- O-line got a little better his bad weapons got a lot worse. Mark again struggled coming down the stretch. Two things bother me about Sanchez 1. The Fumbles he just fumbles to much. 2. The collapse down the stretch The Arizona game was just bad QB play. All the other crap about accuracy and reading defenses are all over blown because of the fumbles. That is why I think, Just my opinion, but looks to be shared by the Jets is that Mark can take a step up. They finally have an experienced OC with a track record and likes to throw the ball. It looks as of today no matter what arguments people throw out that Mark will be the Day 1 starter. The Jets are not stupid they know Mark has talent and they also know his weaknesses. They are not betting the farm on Mark but they are betting he succeeds. Again, IMHO i think Mark needed to be benched a couple times over the last four years (ala Pat Ryan and O'brien) but did not have a viable back-up. As of today Mark will have one more chance prove himself with a new OC and hopefully some healthy weapons we will see if can get playoff Mark most weeks.
have you ever heard of reading comprehension? at no point have I said he is now a good QB but keep deflecting w/ that stuff from your weak arguments.
Well why do you assume top 10 play would bring us 0 playoff wins? Top 10 play with our 09 or 10 teams brings us a SB. Not a black or white issue. In 2010 top 10 play could have brought us HF advantage and the AFC East. Top 10 play gets us in the 2011 playoffs also. Very black or white issue. I would rather our QB played like a top 10 level QB the past 4 year, because it would have gotten us at least one more playoff appearance and probably won us one of the championship games. What would be a great defensive performance? The Giants got 0 points vs ATL, 17 vs SF and 17 vs NE in one SB run. The packers got 16 vs PHI, 14 vs CHI in one run. In 2001 the Patriots got 14, 14 and 17 I believe. NO got games of 14 and 17 vs teams that put up 45 and 30 the week before. NYG in Eli's first run got 14,17,20,14. In that same run NE got 12 and 17 performances. The year before IND got 8 and 6. Before that Pitt gave up 17,18,17, and 10. Defensive are key and can easily lead to 2 wins in a SB run. It's actually more rare to get 2 great games from your QB than it is from your defense in SB runs. Not sure what you mean by great though. I consider 17 and lower great, especially your competition is tougher in the playoffs. Very rare a QB wins a SB winning shootout after shootout.
Why would it? better QBs on better teams couldn't win as often so why would they here? I didn't say defense wasn't key and that we weren't driven by our D BUT you still need quality QB play to win, none of those teams were winning w/ those great defensive performances if they also didn't get good QB play. We wouldn't have won a game if we didn't get good QB play in the playoffs.
2009- Looking at rookies now, that OK level turns to bad, wouldn't you say? Dalton, Wilson, RGIII, Luck, Ryan, and Flacco all looked better as rookies. In this era of QBs he looked below average for a rookie QB. 2010- Lot better play from Sanchez. Protected the ball, had some big drives, his inconsistency (which I think was from Schotty's playcalling) led to us not achieving greater heights which we could have hit. The BAL, GB, MIA games could have been won if we scored 2 TDS instead of putting up 9,0, and 6. The inconsistency came back to haunt us in Pitt. 2011- Much better 1st half of the year from Sanchez. Less reliance on defense and run game, less talent around him but he was imprvoing. He was turning into a Romo/Eli/Big Ben type. Gunslinger with tons of turnovers, but scored a bunch. Down the stretch of 2011, Sanchez we were used to from 2010 to middle of 2011 was gone. He was scared, that "clutch" thing was gone as we lost pathetic games to DEN and MIA. Schotty was also to blame for the NYG game where we dropped him back 60 times. Blegh, he started out very promising and ended with "ehh I think he can rebound" 2012- Mentally looked gone. Let bad things stack on top of each other, showed no fight for his job, looked like a rookie again. Started struggling with easy things that he should be able to do like typical crossing patterns and leading a receiver or protecting the ball or throwing the ball away understanding game clock. Very rough showing with Mark and it didn't help everything around was garabge. He could have risen from that garbage and made us say "well if Holmes is healthy, we are good to go" But instead we are at the point where we might need to protect Sanchez with a run game and easy passes again. 1) Situational awareness in top of fumbles. Last thing you can do in NE in OT is to turn it over. I believe it was 3rd down? Spike it, it's 4 down territory. Against TEN, last minute drive, no need to force a throw, it's 4 down territory. Against BUF to start the season, why try a one handed flip pass? The RZ pick against NE and SEA too. Missed a read, it happens, don't throw the ball late to try and fix the mistake. Sit on it, take the FG. I'm sure there are more, but that's off the top of my head. Situational awareness. 2) The accuracy is not overblown. He missed receivers on simple crossing patterns. Too many times Kerley and Schillens had to twist against their momentum to catch a ball behind them when they had their defender beat. That's simple things. It either boils down to mentally or footwork, probably both, because he can make that throw he just didn't make those throws at all. Whoa whoa whoa. There is no guarantee Mark is the day 1 starter. If we bring in another QB, even with this crop, there is going to be a competition and we don't know what Mark is going to show up. They are not betting he succeeds. I don't know where you got that. If they were betting he succeeds, they have gunned for high price free agents. They understand this year is going to be rough, partly because of Sanchez and partly because of his contract. No way they are betting on him to succeed. They 100% hope he gets it together, but they have showed no sign they are betting on it like Tanny after the 10-11 season. That's always been so frustrating. His inconsistency. That made last year even more frustrating. He was consistently bad. It was more surprising for him to make good plays last year than bad plays. He showed flashes but those flashes have been less and less the last 1.5 years. The last time he a great game, not one where he was asked to do nothing and not screw up, was probably 2011 season. The BUF game this year maybe, but the team overall came out flying for that one.
I think all we needed at the end of the day was someone to make plays when plays were needed the most. Sanchez isn't a consistent QB we know that, hell he is below-average. You couldn't deny he had big game talent though and made plays count when the team had confidence in him. 3rd down, you need a big play Sanchez made them in the playoffs, while other QBs tend to choke. in 6 playoff games you never seen Sanchez choke - that's something that junc and hobbes still believe can occur. Part of that is mental, not too sure if he has that anymore though. Shit, when we drafted the guy, I was hoping he was the guy that made plays, not put up big numbers on a run first / defense team. Troy Aikman was that type of player. Always came up big in big spots. I always think about that Chargers - Jets playoff game where on 3rd down Sanchez rolls out and makes a play to Keller, while Rivers throws an INT off his back-foot in a crucial playoff game.
We have no idea what top 10 QB would have brought us? To say if we had another QB besides Mark we '09 and '10 we win the Superbowl is ludicrous. We had a top 10 QB in '08 and we did not make the playoffs. Play call changes passes are missed comebacks are not made. There is reason many top 10 QBs have not won four road playoff games. In 2010 to say unequivocally we go better than 11-5 with a top 10 QB that is just ludicrous. Mark played a critical roll in many of those wins. Most likely no matter who the QB was we all things being equal that was an 11-5 team. Then to say we make the SuperBowl? Peyton has only been to the superbowl twice Dree Brees once Phillip Rivers zero Matt Ryan zero Aaron Rogers once. Mark and the Jets got hot in the playoffs and Mark was a big reason for those runs. Revisionist history kills me 2009 we were not even supposed to have a winning record but with a top 10 qB we go to the superbowl? I am on a rant but can't stop. Have you ever been on a team before or made a run at a championship? Dos not even matter what age to win a championship things come together it is not about the individual parts but how the parts perform as a whole. That is why to say if such and such was our QB that year we to a superbowl is ludicrous. When Trent Dilfer won that year with the Ravens he made plays and fit the system. Somebody thought as you did and dumped him for a supposedly better QB and the Ravens don't win again. (IMHO they win another one with Trent) Team dynamics are a funny thing which is why insert player and is just a third grade argument.
What teams with better QBs had a top 6 OL, #1 D, and top 6 ST? Easy none in 2009 did. No team was top 6 in each category like us. In 2010 we had the #3 OL, #5 D, and # 5 ST. No other team was that high in each category as us. So yeah better QB, probability wise, would have gotten us better regular season and playoff play.So no they weren't on better teams, they were coming from worse overall teams to our team, they would most likely have more success coming to a team with a stronger OL, D and ST. I don't why you underrate our team in 2009 and 2010 so much. They were very great. You said "truly great defenses haven't won 2 PO games a year" so I showed you years they did. I know you didn't say defense wasn't key, hence why I then ended my post with defining what "Great defense" meant to me. I never said quality QB wasn't needed, I just said it's rarer for a QB to win by shootout to shootout than have a defense put up 2 great games in the playoffs. I also didn't say we wouldn't have won the playoffs without quality QB play, not sure where you read that. You said defenses haven't 2 PO games with great play a year, I showed you defense doing that consistently recently, then defined what great defense means to be since great is subjective to me. So yeah what is a great defensive performance to you? Mine was around 17 points which has happened quite frequently in the playoffs.
All of the 2009 1st round rookies were thrown on the field at the start and all of them sucked. Sanchez actually finished with slightly better stats than Stafford and Freeman that year. The difference is both of the other guys have had strong seasons since then while Sanchez has not. Freeman is still inconsistent and it's unclear that he's the answer in TB but he has been much better than Sanchez. Stafford survived an injury his second season and is now a star. The problem with Sanchez is that when year 4 sucks as badly as year 1 did the odds are enormous the player has found his level of play. When there's nothing for him to bounce back to because the two middle years were below average? Well, that's where the Jets find themselves right now, they have a thoroughly mediocre QB in his early prime who has little or no upside. Even if the system rescues him that'll just be the system rescuing him. The Jets would be much better off finding a good QB to teach the system too instead of hoping that it will make their mediocre QB look better.
Look at our team rankings in the post below yours and above this one. Better QB play probably improves us greatly. That's why I said "probably" because probability, improving our QB improves our chances those years with top 6 and top units on our team. You disagree that improving the QB from Sanchez to Rodgers or Brady or Brees or Peyton would have increased the probability of reaching the SB? I disagree because all 4 QBs would have come to better situations team wise than what they left (except for offense since you know they are a key component)
Continue my Rant for the Anti- Sanchez crowd. Anybody but Sanchez would be better so get rid of him. Again, the dumbest argument I ever heard. I understand Draft a QB to replace Sanchez yeah no problem. We actually have a thread on this site why did we not sign Fitzpatrick? Even if I did not thin Sanchez can turn it around I don't want to sign a FA Jag. Kolb- failed in Philly, Arizona lets bring him in. Fynn- lets send draft picks to get him he has played all of two games and got beat out by a rookie. Campbell- Failed in washington, Oakland and wherever else he has been. If and when we get rid of Sanchez lets find a QB in the draft and develop them not bring in a four team scrub.
