All Combine Info 2013

As you know there is no exact science in the drafting process. Hill offers tremendous upside, and that is what the combine showed last year. He came from a running scheme, and did not have the opportunity to learn his trade for an NFL passing team. If by the end of the year he isn't catching the balls he should, then you move on. If he is catching the ball, and he isn't learning his routes (precisely) by the end of next year, you move on. Not to mention, he fit our system as a supposed ground and pound team.

That being said, there is nothing to say he wasn't graded as a 2nd rounder prior to the combine by teams. As many teams say, the combine doesn't not change evaluation, just confirms what they see on tape.

 

You can cover up alot of physical shortcomings on gameday.Whether it's scheme/surrounding talent/opposing talent/weather/intangible factors... When everyone is isolated under the same surroundings/circumstances & asked move athletically...there's no hiding stiffing,awkwardness & lack of coordination.

The combine isn't about measuring the whole football player or final product.It's solely about raw physical ability.

 

Hill wasn't a 2nd rounder going into the combine. He was a guy who had barely had any balls thrown his way in an offense that ran a huge percentage of the time.

Maybe on Fantasy Island he was a 2nd round pick but he wasn't in real life.

 

I agree with the premise of what you're saying, definitely. It can raise a flag, though, if the QB can't make the pass with no pressure. More a screening than an evaluation.

One thing it's good for is to see people do things they don't have tape on. Armonty Bryant looked pretty good in the linebacker psitional drills, for example. He's only played defensive end, and it can help with projection.

Thanks for the feedback.:up:

 

It does have some value as a screening tool for basic competence but even then it has issues.

What if a guy comes in and has his worst day possible under the lights after his flight got delayed and he got 4 hours of sleep? What if he has the flu coming on but not here yet? What if he gets lost in the shuffle and doesn't manage his fluid intake well? There are so many reasons that a guy could screw up that have nothing to do with how good he actually is.

There might be some real value in evaluating the people at the bottom of the draft and potential UDFA's but the value up top just isn't there.

 

the combine should represent no more than 1/3rd of ur entire evaluation process. the remaining 2/3rds comes from film study, personal evaluations, interviews, tests, etc etc.

when teams deviate from this basic formula they better have experienced personnel guys running the show cause thats when the chances of u busting a pick increases.

 

Maybe he wasn't, and I can't say with any certainty.

 

Yeah I shouldn't have said mid round picks. In the later rounds though I wouldn't mind taking a guy with off field issues. Especially if without them they would be getting drafted before that.

Inconsistent play, I would have more trouble taking a gamble on, but injuries and character concerns, I would take with a 5th +. Unless of course there is someone who you know or at least are positive in them contributing.

This would of made more sense last year with Mike T who just looked at the board and picked any random in the late rounds, to then just cut them. We'll see Idzik does with his first draft. Hopefully he finds us a Richard Sherman talent in those late rounds.

 

What if you are evaluating a tape, and the bold above happened? It's all relative. The combine is only to confirm what you see on tape, and compare athletes on an even playing field. If an evaluator overvalues a combine performance, shame on them.

 

If you are evaluating tape of a college football player's career and he doesn't look like a great player the odds are pretty good he's not a great player. If you look at a specific game that deviates greatly from his normal performance in some way then there's a likelihood that the deviation is a result of something that's under the radar, similar to the cases I cited above.

The combine probably should be evaluated as the equivalent of one bowl game in a 4 year career. It's not even clear that it's as important as a bowl game in the evaluation process but it certainly isn't as valuable as any significant fractional portion of player's college career.

 

The combine would be like the game that deviates greatly. Case in point would be Brandon Jenkins. He looked terrible today, but his tape is fantastic. Knowing he is coming off a lisfranc Injury, you should take that into consideration.

Dion Jordan would be another case. He looked great today, but everyone knows he is undersized. He is a couple years away from being an impact player, but you can confirm his ability as a 3-4 OLB based on his drills today.

 

Best of class.

Edit: OLB, but LB's haven't tested yet. He tested with DL. Mingo looked good in his conversion drills as well. (not advocating for him)

 

Drafting somebody off of a lisfranc is going to be kind of iffy unless it was the walking boot kind that didn't need surgery. Even then the guy has effectively fractured his foot once already playing football, that doesn't bode well for his ability to stand up to the rigors of the profession.

Why would you ever draft a LB you thought was a couple of years away in the 1st round? 1st round picks have to to make an impact right away unless they are QB's and WR's. The NFL is actually trending towards every 1st round pick playing right off the bat these days.

If the Jets took Jordan on the 9 and he didn't work out you'd hear a chorus of "same old Jets" and rightly so. The Jets need to go get somebody on the 9 who they project as a star *this year*. If they don't think they can do that they need to trade the pick down for depth and more shots at a star *this year*.

 

I didn't expect Moore to be able to compete athletically with Mingo and Jordan, but 4.95 and just 12 reps? Wow... And on top of it he pulled a hammy and seemed to carry a lot of body fat.

 

I never said the Jets should draft him, and I don't think they should. Even if he did put the weight on that fast, he would need to learn to play with it which will take time.

My point about Jenkins was it was the worst he has looked, and didn't compare to his tape.

 

Have to wonder what Kiper was thinking huh?

 

Well the lisfranc injury and the enforced idleness during the 2012 season are the obvious reasons for Jenkins looking bad at the combine. In this case though the combine performance probably should put a damper on teams enthusiasm for Jenkins. He might come back strong. He might come back at a level below his previous play. He might get hurt again. That's a tough row of potential results for a team to evaluate for a high draft pick.

Now throw in the fact that Jenkins is leaving school a year early after suffering a season ending injury in the first game last year and things get really dicey when evaluating him. Not saying it wasn't a wise decision on his part but he'd be an easier pick up high if he'd gone back to school and played for a season.

 

This case is obviously an extreme, but the premise is the same. If a player doesn't preform to expectation at the combine, a good scout would investigate, and re-look at his tapes. In addition, the medical evaluations at the combine are a huge plus.