ive watched him play for 4 years and i will not say he is always inaccurate, nor will i say he doesnt have guys run bad routes or have hte line break down on him. these things happen. my point was that he is just not a very accurate qb. his completion percentage over a 4 year period tells us that as well as the eye test in watching him make throws. he will have a streak where he puts the ball on target for 4 or 5 passes in a row but a far larger percentage of the time he is inaccurate, even when the passes are completed. its one of those things that drives me crazy and thats why i realize it so often. when i see a guy running away from a defender and he gets tackled as soon as he catches it because the ball was behind him it gets frustrated because its an easy pass to make a good gain.
He's been throwing behind receivers on crossing patterns consistently as well as putting the ball behind them on little flares out into the flats and up the sidelines. He just doesn't have the quick decision-making and delivery skills to function efficiently in a short passing offense. That's why I have doubts that the WCO will do a lot for him. Simpler reads and faster throws should help him out but if he doesn't deliver the ball quickly and accurately they won't.
i was beginning to think i was the only one who saw these things. i have no faith in him at this point. i am to the point where i hope he is so bad that they are forced to play someone else. the problem is that he got to that point last year and they still played him. which concerns me. as far as i am concerned the worst possible thing that could happen is that he plays and plays marginally next year and the jets dont deal with the situation like they need to.
I posted the following a while back in response to someone questioning the fit between Sanchez and the WCO because of Sanchez's accuracy: Note McNabb was not a naturally accurate passer either. Jake Plummer is another example who a career mid 50% CMP guy who never broke the 60% CMP threshold until he was put in a WCO. The WCO generally tends to have that affect on the CMP of players who otherwise would not be considered "accurate".
Cval, I have broken down the film. I have the coaches All22 film from last year and have watched each offensive play of every game multiple times, often in slow motion and frame by frame. To your point, no, Mark Sanchez IS NOT an accurate passer.
That one play is indicative of how Sanchez has been over the past 2 years rather than just being an isolated incident. It's actually pretty powerful precisely because it isolates Mark and removes any question of where the blame lies. Yes, by and large, Sparano sucked. Most QBs in the NFL would perform worse than "normal" if they had to run an offense under him. And yes, the Jets were lacking in overall talent. That said, a "good QB" still would have done better with the Jets under Sparano than Sanchez did. Taking it further, even with a better OC and more talent, Mark STILL won't be a "good" QB. He might rise to the level of being serviceable, but, without a top ranked defense and a top ranked running game, he's not going to get you very far. That's the thing that some of you miss about "elite" QBs. They can put the team on their backs and get to the playoffs without having the best of everything around them. No, they might not win the SB, as it takes more than just an elite QB for that, but at least they have a shot at it and can build from it.
BeastBeach is a better poster than a lot of people on here. Who gives a shit if he's a Dolphins fan. His posts for the most part are objective and based on reality, unlike many here including yourself.
Great post. Sanchez is not accurate. Period. There is really no real argument about that. He hardly hits receivers in stride (and to those that blame the receivers- its not on the receiver if Mark can not hit them in stride on a slant, out, post or fade). Its why our receivers have horrible YAC for the most part aside from Kerley or Holmes occasionally breaking one. I've been saying this since we hired MM, Mark is not suited for a WCO even if he played in one in college.
sanchez cant carry eli's jock...what he did on the last drive of both sb 42 and 46 sanchez couldn't dream about-and sanchez played his first two yrs with a helluva lot more than eli had...jet fans have to stop the eli comparisons-especially ones like u junc with ur silly cherry picking and spin; ur embarrassing urselves
we don't have to discuss this w/ Giant fans. We had a good TEAM and we don't win 4 playoff games w/o quality QB play either. You guys seem to think that by defending mark we are saying he is great. No one has ever said that, we all know we have been a D first team but we have never had great defenses and even the truly great defenses need wuality QB play to win consistently in January. 9-7/10-6 w/ a "good" QB:lol:. That is a completely ridiculous statement. I don't always agree w/ you but I think you know the game pretty well and to post something so outlandish is just trying to rally the troops against us. Mark was bad but Stevie Wonder could see he had absolutely no help on offense and that the D looked much better than it was based on our O being so bad and opponents being so conservative against us. When opponents needed to score they did. W/ a better QB we may win 2 more games(and we may have lost 2 we won w/ mark- no one knows) or so but we aren't going to the playoffs w/ the weapons the QB had to throw to. Alex Smith:lol: Oh boy. You forgot how he brought us back down 10 late and gave us a 3 pt lead. Cro didn't have an easy TD, he had his man beat and he underthrew him- sort of like Flacco in the SB to jones but when you have receivers that can make plays they can make your QB better. he had a ball stick to a helmet and then threw a perfect pas that should have been ruled an incompletion last year. Mark had a chance to bring us back from 24-0 down at Pitt, the D didn't cooperate. Eli got to and won 2 SBs b/c of his defense stepping up in the title games and SBs- mark didn't have that.
CVAL is the type of guy you make your initial point then leave it at that. Some guys just don't think there is any useful knowledge outside their own fanbase as well as within their own. They have a very high opinion off themselves and its basically a waste of time trying to engage in a debate with them.
Why would I come to a jets board to debate a dolphins fan? I get it he think Mark sucks so he makes great points? You guys are the same people calling Pennington inaccurate or noodle arm. You want Sanchez to fail I don't. There is no perfect Qb Mark has shown he can win and win playoffs games. I do not want to start over just for half the fan base to start complaining how bad the new guy is before they even take a snap. Sanchez has the skill set to be very good he with right coach and right system. He has earned one more shot. If he blows it he is gone there is no need to continually bash the guy. I don't understand the hatred except from the dolphins fan. Hey that is just me bash away.
i really hate to say this but i think that mornhinweg was the perfcet choice for oc for the jets. put that kind of offense with rex's d and you have yourself one hell of a team. ive been studying the eagles offense the past couple weeks and all i can say is, wow. guys are constantly open, even when vick decides to run there are guys that he could have thrown to. and im not talking about the half a step of separation that were used to seeing from the jets, im talking wide open looks, the likes of which everyone has been dreaming of seeing with our receivers. it is not all the players, hell a guy we are all familiar with was getting this type of separation (m gilyard) mark is going to do well in this offense. i hate to break it to you guys. the system is solid and if the core group of holmes edwards kerley and keller are retained, we should see some good production on that side of the ball. greene is likely gone, powell will be getting a chance, but i would expect them to try and find an option at rb elsewhere. but i hate to say it, the more i look at the mornhinweg/reid offense, the more i can see marty thinking hes gonna come in a fix sanchez. lets keep our fingers crossed, cause i dont see us bringing in a fa qb to compete with mark, at least not with the cap shape the team is in right now. mark will be given a shot, along with a younger guy that has earned a chance to compete for a starting job, but i think the plan might be to use sanchez, kind of a one last shot type deal, and if someone in practice is playing better, then no shot for mark. i dont think we should expect a big move at the qb position next season though. i get it. mark has done some awful things as qb of the ny jets. but to discount all of the good is just looking to justify your emotions and nothing else. to say things like mark isnt a starting caliber qb and all that other stuff is just heresy. for the majority of his career he has been a starting qb, and has seen a decent amount of success in that role. you guys act as though coaching has nothing to do with what happens on the field. we have been screaming about the coaching on offense since before mark ever put on a jets uniform, but now that sanchez is here, are we supposed to forget all that and just say, 'should have got it done, kid' ? cause if you ask me thats bullshit. he gets his chances just like anyone else who has earned it, because he HAS earned it. hell hes earned the chance a hell of a lot more than tebow has, yet people cling to tebows nuts like the sweat cured cancer. get off the kids back and let him play some football.
There are times when you don't know what the WR is supposed to do to really tell if Sanchez missed or the WR missed. The optimistic part of me says our rotating crop of receivers/TE were not running the routes crisply enough. The ones that are the most worrisome are the simple crossing patterns. We know the route is the receiver running across the field with a defender on his tail and multiple times we saw Sanchez throw behind or above the receiver, not in stride on crossing routes 3-5 yards down the field. That's the most worrisome one because we know the route and the throw Sanchez should make and we rarely saw it. That's a throw that if you hit it, it has potential to go for a big gain, something we rarely got last year. This is what we are all hoping. It gives Sanchez easier throws and helps keeps drives going. If Sanchez can start connecting more and leading receivers better, it helps sustain drives and rests the defense. It also helps since we can start relying on the offense to help the defense out instead of hoping the defense pitches a perfect game. Quick points here. Look at my first point in this post. It's the easy throws where we know the route/throw that's frustrating to see Sanchez miss. The same throw he hit Cotch for in 2010 playoff game against NE, he has rarely if ever hit a receiver in stride like that this year. That's mostly on him not the lack of talent. That's one of the basic routes in the game that we as fan know what the WR and QB are supposed to do. The other routes, it's much more difficult to discern whether the WR ran the wrong route or Sanchez put the ball in the wrong spot. You have to tell the whole story. He also threw an INT on NE half of the field, a throw if on time could have been a TD not a pick. Part of the reason we were in that hole was QB play. Part of the reason we got back in that game was QB play. That's the type of QB Sanchez was in 2011. That's the type of QB were never saw again last year. Yeah, the little things win Super Bowls Junc. Every team gets breaks, it's then the teams that capitalize them and then win the SB that are remembered for getting those breaks. If SF won the SB, it would all be about the blackout helping them. Since they lost, the blackout was just a funny thing that happened. If NE won the year before it would be all about Evans dropping it and Cundiff missing against BAL, instead it was all about the SF punt returner muffing two punts and quick whistle on the Bradshaw fumble. All teams get breaks, the teams that take advantage of them are remembered. All takes is a bounce here and bounce there for a team to be a SB winner or a loser like 30 other teams. Nobody remembers in our 2009 run that the CIN and SD field goal kickers went 0-5 against us. We didn't win the SB so it doesn't really matter. Again tell the whole story. The deficit was 17-0 before Mark/OL missed the weak side blitzer, the refs made a questionable call, and we went down 24-0. We then salvaged 3 points. Then the defense pitched a shutout in the second half as the offense went to work. At any point if the Pitt offense scored any more points, the game was over. THe D and O were on point until the GL stand by Pitt where some questionable play calling came back to haunt us. The D then cooperated by grabbing that safety and the O came back with a TD. Then finally the D ran of gas and let up a first down for Pitt to end it. The huge blow was getting 0 points on the GL. That would have saved us 3-5 minutes of game clock and cut the game down to one possession before needing a safety then a drive taking time off the clock.
There are many frustrations about his play last year but I believe it all traces back to the lack of talent. He was shot mntally by the end of the year. Yep, he threw an INT in NE territory- that happens. If he misses we get 3rd and long but he put that behind him and brough us back down 10 at Foxboro and gave us a lead in the final minutes which our D blew. People remember the missed kicks in 2009 what they don't remember are the 2 we missed in that years title game and that one of the SD misses was from 57 and how the game changes if they make the makebale one late in that game. It was 24-0 though, right? and he brought us back w/in 24-19 w/ plenty of time remaining and all 3 TOs- the O never saw the ball again but that's his fault, right? The D ran out of gas or was it that pitt actually needed to move the ball? How could the D run out of gas when they were on the field for about 10 mins in the 2nd half until that possession. if they were tired it was from them allowing Pitt to push them around all first half.
A simple slant pattern relies on timing the correct angle of the route, the O-line getting the d-line hands down and finding throwing lanes, the position of the LB and Safeties. One of those breaks down the timing of the route gets disrupted. It is very rarely as simple as he did not lead the receiver.
that is exactly the type of throw im talking about. the one with a guy coming across the middle at 5 yards who is just running across the middle. no cuts no reads just running with a lb following him 2 yards behind. if the ball is in front and he can maintain his stride its a long gain. if the ball is behind its a 5 yard gain at best, an int at worst. the swing passes are terrible too often as well. the rb having to adjust and catch it on his back hip allowing the lb to come from teh middle and make the stop for minimal gain is a killer. these are the types of throws i judge him on because they are pretty simple to see. there is no break that the receiver has to come out of like on an out or a receiver having to beat the bump on the line. these routes and throws remove teh wr suck variables and put the focus directly on the innacuracy of the qb.
Part of the problem is Sanchez is innaccurate on these throws, but also this year he didn't have a good pass catching back in there a lot of the time. Sanchez had better completion percentages on the swing passes and short passes in previous years, I think because Tomlinson was often in. Greene did not catch the ball much in college iirc, and even though those routes are simple, I think he struggles a bit. It's compounded by Mark's inaccuracy. Tomlison was a back who was good enough to catch poorly thrown balls, Greene really can't do him that kind of favor. I get pissed at the missed short passes too, sometimes I think I could complete them sitting from in my recliner. You wonder how a QB and RB can't make a 5 yard completion behind the line of scrimmage work. What still kills me are the boneheaded turnovers. Some are going to happen. I remember a play in a NE game this year where Mark was throwing to one guy, and another one of the NE DB's came off his guy (think the play was designed for this) and picked it off. I can live with that. I can't live with the butt fumbles and the throwing off the back foot late over the middle stuff. I do think Mark improved in 2011 (despite the media narrative), but 2012 was a big step back.
you are absolutely correct, there are many variables in many different throws. did the guy break on an out at 12 instead of 15 yards. did he get his head around fast enough and find the ball. did he fade away instead of coming back on a curl. did he run the post too thin. thats why i stayed away from those type of timing throws or ones in which you have to beat a db who is bumping you at the line. the throws i talked about take all of those things out of consideration.
