some guy who has been for 3 months is talking about who is respected? a poster I had no idea existed until today when you posted the nonsense you posted? Seriously?
So PPG almost exact same, YPG way in favor of Jets. Balt D generates more turnovers, Sanchez gives away more turnovers. All facts. But Balt's turnover generation is your only evidence that their D is better, while Sanchez turnovers are not evidence that Flacco is better? You can't have it both ways, and your own logic managed to argue yourself right out of the debate. Let me ask you something, if Balt loses that lead, i bet you blame Flacco for not being good enough to win a SB in some sort of Sanchez defense. However, you'd be real quick to blame the Jets D instead of Sanchez if it were reversed. you know its true..
who cares about yards? it's about points, you want to post TOP that's different but I'd rtaher allow a few mroe yards, a few less pts and turn it over 3x as much. Sanchez has thrown 3 INTs and lost 1 fumble in 6 postseason games. Flacco has thrown 8 INts and lost 3 fumbles in 13 postseason games who is turning it over more in postseason? If Bal loses that lead I would blame the Bal D and Flacco and the O. I can't give a black and white answer on if that happened to us, when have we blown a 22 pt lead?
And the sad part is, when he calls for facts, and he has been given tons and tons of them, he ignores them, calls the information unimportant, or digs to fabricate a rebuttal that is blindly aimed at sanchez's few bright spots, while he blames everything on anything other than his Qb. He always resorts to saying he knows more because that's what he wants other posters to think, the thing is anybody who has watched football knows a good Qb from a bad Qb. Jun. just wants to portray the antagonist because he obviously loves his Qb for more than his play! Or he honestly believes you can turn a pigs ear into a silk purse! And he calls us stupid? Really?
That isn't the way I see it. I see it as any time somebody develops an opinion based on watching football and then uses statistics or other analysis to supplement it you accuse them of being stat watchers. For instance if somebody brings up QB rating it doesn't mean they are relying solely on statistics or are being a lazy fan. It may mean that they have developed an opinion on a guy and the statistics also bear it out as a form of tangible evidence. Statistics can be brought up as a way to bring objectivity in addition to the subjectivity of using the eye test. It tends to add credibiltiy, especially considering we are using a medium in which posters have no inherent credibility. In most cases you seem to present your argument in such a way that implies that your subjectivity is superior to others subjectivity.
Who cares about yds? That is how defenses are ranked. You can't go solely by points, as an offensive turnover followed by a 3 and out and FG counts 3 pts against D. Even still PPG are the same in comparing the post season runs. We were talking about Balt's '12 post season performance, compared to Jets 09 and 10. Don't change the argument now by talking about Flacco's combined post season. Flacco did not turn the ball over once, and i'd say that is why they won. SF just needed 1 INT or QB fumble yesterday, and he wouldn't give it to them. Sanchez has never accomplished that throughout a post season, and in fact has gone the other way dramatically in the regular season (causing missed post seasons). We may as well talk combined regular/post season of both QB's, and then the picture would be really clear for you. I can't think of one thing Sanchez has done better. And yes you would blame the Jets D in my scenario, as you already have blamed them for many losses for 'blown leads' (none of them near 22pt lead)
Yards lead to points junc, so you can't debunk them When has nacho given us a 22 point lead against a great defense, playoffs or regular season? Black and white answer? Here is one, in 10 Pitt game, nacho fumbles away 7 points, the points that ended up killing our Super Bowl chances, and you blame the defense for not giving nacho a last attempt at a game winning TD, even though he couldn't carry a team through the air against a top 5 defensehis entire career? Total bias junc! He has been limited due to his limitations, and his limits kept us out of the big games in 09/10! He played as best he could but his role at the highest level is a contributor. And he should be paid like a top 5 Qb? Wow! I want to play on your team, I shouldn't make much less than nacho! Our play wouldn't be much different that's for sure!
I dismiss them when that is their entire argument. I hate stats w/o contxt like someone telling me how great our run game was in 2010 b/c of rankings. Our run game was ok, nothing more. Too many people just rely on certain #s like if a QB throws for 300, etc... Like I mentioned the other day a QB can throw for 300+ w/ 2 TDs and 0 INts and still not have a good game. I worry about how the #s were accumulated. That's just 1 of the many reasons why we don't judge based on rankings. You are telling me how Flacco doesn't turn it over when that isn't true. he had a great run w/ 1 TO this postseason, sanchez's career high for a postseason is 2. Our D has folded a million times, bal's D ALMOST folded but didn't. That's the biggest difference btw the runs we had and the run Bal just had. Flacco hasn't been a great reg season QB either, he had a great postseason this year but overall hasn't been a great postseason QB as well. This is not Tom Brady we are talking about her where there's no comparison. Flacco and Sanchez are similar, neither is carrying a team on their back but both can win w/ the right talent around them.
but when those yards don't turn into pts what do they mean? Flacco didn't give bal a 22 pt lead, Jacoby Jones did. The D had a chance to stop Ptt and give mark a chance like bal did in giving Flacco a chance at den and SF did giving Kape a chance the last 2 games. where did I discuss how much he should be paid?
Without question I think Idzik is looking at QB's in the lower rounds...But everyone stinks this year. Might serve us well to reload the OL and get some offense weapons out there. Someone please replace Kyle Wilson.
When yards don't turn into points means you have mark Sanchez as your Qb! Field position is the most fundamental strategy in football, you don't know this? Yards are a reflection of how an offense/defense is winning or losing that battle, it's common sense in football. Flacco threw how many tds yesterday, against a team that nacho would have shit the bed against? So jones did it for Baltimore, while nachos only good TD passing game againstNE in the playoffs was all on him? Pitt 10, o and d played like shit, but the d did its job in the second half and then some, but nachos ineptitude couldn't help us over the hump. He gave away the winning margin and the defense gave us two points while shutting the Pitt offense out in the second half, but it's their fault? You have no argument
where is the big yard/low pt total game for mark? all that matters is who has more pts at the end of the game, whether we outgain a team or not. Flacco threw 3 Tds against a D that allowed an average of 25 PPg this postseason and 1 was basically a hail mary where his WR made an incredible play. mark did have 2 TDs against Pitt 2 years ago in the title game including a bomb in stride not 10 yds behind his WR. Nope, NE was not all on him but what offensive/ST player had a game like Jones in any of our playoff games? The D did it's job in the 2nd half except when the game was on the line and they failed. The O got it w/in 5 pts w/ plenty of time to play, the D couldn't get a stop. Just needed to hold Pitt to 1 1st down, couldn't do it.
Gauging a D by yds is way more effective than by points, which is a better team stat than D stat. That is why it's done that way. Just going by yds isn't quite enough, as you have to look at turnovers. Other things i look at are 3rd down efficiency and avg yds given up on 1st down. But total yds is probably the most telling stat, and cannot simply be dismissed as you tried to. He didn't turn it over this post season. That is what we were discussing, this post season. If he turns it over in Den or SF, there is a very good chance they don't win, and we aren't having this discussion. That's complete bullshit. Our D as not 'folded a million times'. You just choose to point the finger there instead of recognizing how Sanchez has been hurting this team. Flacco has more Super Bowl wins, more Super Bowl MVP's, more postseason wins, more post season road wins, more regular season wins, better career passer rating, better career completion %, way better turnover %, more TD's, more passing yds, no losing the respect of his team, and no butt fumble. He is better in almost everything that could possibly matter. And don't try to argue this by pointing to a single game in which Sanchez may have had better stats. Their careers aren't even close, and are going in opposite directions. but hey, if you can convince Ozzie Newsome otherwise, i'm ready to pull the trigger on that trade.
Where is the big yardage game for mark? Where is the big point total for mark? Exactly junc, exactly! We don't have a player like Jones that can have a big game, cause of our Qb's limitations! Holmes can do that for Big Ben, but not nacho? Why is that? In 10 mark managed 2 tds sure I saw the game, but after he gave away a TD that ended up being the losing points. Lets divide our teams play once again...... Nacho had 2 TD passes and gave away 7, so net 7 points! The defense gave up 17 points, and scored 2, so net 15 points! Which did its job better that game overall? Do you also assume that if the defense does stop Pitt, and nacho gets the ball we will score a TD in the 2 min drill? Why didnt the nacho led offense punch it in when down 24-17, and tie the game? You have no argument no matter how you spin it
The deciding points in that game was Sanchez fumbling away a TD, on a terrible offensive play call. You are right in points are all that matters, but its a team stat. Pitt had more points than the Jets when the game was over. In isolating one side of the ball, like you apparently like to do in assigning blame, you have to look at yds. Whenever a D is top 10 in allowing yds, but the team is bottom 10 in allowing pts, its the biggest indicator that offense and/or special teams is struggling.
What's funny is that Baltimore had a lead in the 4th quarter of the championship/SB, something that the Jets couldn't give their defense to protect. The defense was given a deficit in the 2nd championship game and told not to let it grow any bigger. On top of not letting it grow, the defense bailed us out by scoring 2 and getting us the ball back after we failed to convert a TD down 14. In the first championship game, the offense gave us 17 points, all in the 2nd quarter, and 0 points outside of that. It's almost impossible to blame either loss soley on D especially when they weren't given a lead in either 4th quarter to begin with. It was typical of our offense, couldn't put together a complete game. Happened quite often under Schotty for some reason. We couldn't find a way to keep a good thing going, why we put up some ghastly offensive performances in 2010 while still playing well in other games. Consistency, we never had it offensively either year, and that's what put the Ravens over the top.
Can you please list the million times our D folded? I would like to see the stats on that. In fact, I'll give you a break, you only need to how me 50 times in the last 4 years. That's only .005% representation of what you said. Also what is folding? Is it given a 4th quarter or lead or what? Because sometimes if I say I mention Peyotn Manning, his D didn't fold, Peyton didn't score enough. When I mention Tom Brady, his D folded. If I mention Joe Flacco, it seems his D didn't fold, and when Sanchez is mentioned his D did fold. It doesn't stay consistent for you. By trying to paint blame in a team sport in one direction, you end up with inconsistencies through your different arguments. It makes it look like you judge based on player's name. So in fact while you say everyone else is blinded by the media, you are the one blinded by the media's narrative and take it at face value. You criticize what you are arguing and if your arguments cannot stay consistent from one play to the next, then they look silly in comparison to one another. Also that's when you start creating false arguments. You start by taking someone's point and bringing it to the extreme. Like I'll saying ST is important to a team, you'll say I said ST is the only part of a team. Obviously it isn't, but by misstating what I said you created a false argument that was never made. Also, Flacco has been a good regular season QB, top 15 probably the last 3-4 years, something we need Sanchez to get to if we want to win a SB with him. Flacco was probably top 10 this year. Also funny you mention Tom Brady. In Tom Brady's 3 SB runs, 9 games, he threw for 11 TDs. In Flacco's 4 playoff games this year he threw for 11 TDs. So you might need to revisit history to remember those SB runs better or better rethink the magnitude of how well Flacco played in these 4 games. You're off somewhere in your line of logic.
nyjunc, maybe it's you who needs to see the play again. You act as if he was throwing from a clean pocket and had the ability to plant his foot and drive into the throw. The power on a deep pass comes from the legs. That throw was all arm.
i dont debate with you junc and i give you balls occasionally because it is impossible to have a debate with you.. you refuse to make any sense or to even think about the other side, its all a trapeze act of finding something to support your stance and disregarding EVERYTHING else. thats not a debate, i have agreed with you a few times. i did that because what you said made sense. OR when you actually make a decent argument for a position.. you on the other hand will never give an inch, and that becomes a pointless conversation when you rehash it over and over again. i dont even view you as a homer, i view you as argumentative and a shit starter. you will always find the point to argue and the one that will incite others and thats obnoxious.
