-The New York Knicks 2012-2013 Season Thread-

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by displacedfan, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Barcs

    Barcs Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    267
    Of course I see the value in Chandler. I just don't think he's playing as well as last year, based on what I'm seeing. Maybe I'm wrong. I also see the value in Amare, and you don't seem to see it. Offense and defense are both equally important in the long run. I want our superstars to be the focal point of the team. It makes sense and it looks like Amar'e is coming back with a passion. I like it. That's why I feel Staudamire just needs to elevate his defense a bit and he'll outweigh Chandler because his effect on offense COULD be greater than Chandlers effect on defense. Again, that's IF he can do it. It's really tough to judge at this point of course.
     
    #881 Barcs, Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  2. DemoIsland

    DemoIsland Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    10
    What? This makes zero sense. First of all, your "ranking" method is flawed because you are comparing every single position in the league. Amongst true centers, he is actually very good when you take into account how many FT he has already attempted. This also makes no sense because its simple math. 1/2 is 50%. In his last 4 years he has been close to a 70% shooter. By your logic of "more than half the time hes going 1/2", that means he would be shooting close to 50% from the line. This is not the case. I am not sure why this is so difficult. Statistics are a compilation of numbers - they have extremes on both the positive and negative end, but in the end it averages out. So if he is a true close to 70% shooter, by the end of the season, he will float right around there. How can he be shooting 1/2 more than 50% of the time and not be close to a 50% shooter? Its elementary math.

    To your second point. Why in the world would Chandler be a priority option on the offensive end of the ball, ESPECIALLY in the clutch when we have Carmelo Anthony? Chandler is not here to play offense. He will get points of course, but he is not someone who will have the ball in his hands. He will never be a post player. He will never be a guy who a play is specifically drawn up for when the seconds are winding down and the Knicks are down by 1 shot. That is not his game. It never has been and it never will be.

    Also, Amare at center? IN THE CLUTCH? NO WAY. I don't want to come off as rude, that is not my intention at all. But you are way way off base here. There is no way you EVER sit Chandler for Amare in the last few minutes of a game. Chandler is a defensive game changer. He is an excellent man on the offensive boards.

    2 years ago, Amare was pretty much the only player we had. Every game was his to win and his to lose. We also never had a legitimate center.
     
  3. Barcs

    Barcs Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    267
    Okay, I might have confused you with the way I worded that. I said that he goes 1 for 2, 50% of the time; not that he makes 50% of his free throws. Half the times he goes to the line he goes 1 for 2. The other half he goes 2 for 2. Balance those 2 out and you get 75%. Since he actually shoots under 70% (67 to be exact), he is going 1 for 2 (or 0 for 2) MORE THAN 50% of the times he goes to the line to shoot a pair. That's why good free throw shooters shoot 2 for 2 more than 50% of time hence averaging more than 80%. Amongst qualifying centers he ranks 16 of 22 in free throw %, below average. This is why he is not as viable as Amar'e in the clutch at least in that aspect, which is a crucial aspect for closing out games. Hopefully that makes more sense now. Sorry about the confusing wording :)

    I didn't say Chandler should be a priority on offense, I said that if and when Amare improves his D enough, his affect on O(plus improved D) could outweigh Chandler's affect on D(and O) and we could play Amare more in the clutch. It's extremely hypothetical. Provided Amare DOES step up his D, I would play him in the clutch over Chandler, because he can draw the foul and drain the free throws. 2 years ago he got to the line like it was nobody's business and he took advantage. Of course again, this is hypothetical, I'm not pushing for it to happen right now, plus each situation is different. If the Knicks are down by 6+ with a minute or 2 to go, I'd want the extra offense from Amar'e. If we are up by 6 or less, I'd take Chandler for the D to close it out. If he gets fouled and we're up 2 with 10 seconds to go. I don't not want him at the line.

    This is all based on Amar'e taking the next step on D. It may not happen until next year (or at all). But if the Amare / Melo / Chandler thing doesn't work out, that's exactly what might end up happening, and we may look to deal Chandler. We'll have to see what happens, though. We still got half a season to go and we still need to get healthy.
     
    #883 Barcs, Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  4. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    To this point, Amare has to raise his defense GREATLY to even get there. I don't think you understand how bad he is defensively. He has so much trouble watching his defender and the ball. He also has a tough time understanding defensive rotations. Too many times instead of rotating tries to send another defender to cover his rotation. This leaves him either guarding air, or guarding someone who doesn't need guarding. He also needs to understand situational defense. You don't get uptight on Reggie Evans to guard him at the 3 point line and take a stupid foul there. And he has to set better screen offensively. He has a jumper where he can pick and pop, he doesn't need to slip every single time. Amare has a LONG way to go to have the effect Chandler has on the game in the starting 5 at the 5.

    I understand what Amare can bring offensively. It's great and he looks really good. He even dunked the ball which is nice to see his hops are back. The thing is, we have given him the ball in very favorable position to score. We haven't run the offense through him which I think what are suggesting. If you are on the floor with Melo (which in your head is what Amare should be doing a lot), Melo deserves the ball more, that's the way it is. If we run Amare with the bench, he deserves the ball more and he can run some pick and roll with Smith or Shump or Prigs. We can maximize Amare's potential the best coming off the bench, leading the bench in scoring, and hiding his defense with Thomas/Chandler out there OR going to a zone. Zone is going to be tough because it leaves you open to offensive rebounds if you don't box out (Amare doesn't) and jump shooters can beat you easily

    And I just saw you mention dealing Chandler? Oh man do you know with Chandler on the court we have a top 5 or #1 defensive rebounding rate. With him off the court we are bottom 5? That doesn't even take into place offensive rebounds.
     
    #884 displacedfan, Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  5. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
  6. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    James White is starting tonight. The Knicks are giving Kidd the day off, expect him to be ready for Friday. They aren't treating the back as an injury, just overuse and lack of rest. Knowing Knicks PR about injuries, expect unexpected. I guess Felton, White, Shump, Melo, Chandler? Major minutes going to Felton, Smith, Melo, Amare, chandler? Which I guess leaves Shump little time in the starting rotation. Need to find a way to get Shump/Smith out there at the same time.

    Reports say Tyson will play. We do need him as well we have no big men after him and Amare. I guess Kurt Thomas counts but he should be used primarily for foul trouble situations as we can always drop Melo to the 4 if Amare gets into foul trouble.
     
  7. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    This is not so good: http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2013/1/30/3932358/herring-knicks-defense-point-guards-MVP

    This JR quote: and J.R. Smith's over here talking about better help rotations, too:

    "We have to get to that nail,’’ Smith said. "The weak side can’t just hug their guys. Everybody has to tilt and stop guys from walking through that paint."

    That's where Amare can be disruptive. If he can limit himself from the ticky tack fouls 30 feet away from the hoop, he has a foul or two to use by stepping into the paint and making it tough to score. THe whole watching the ball/man idea.
     
  8. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Jameer Nelson torched us last time. Good test for our Pick and Roll defense. We should beat the Magic.
     
  9. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Will Woodson learn to put Shumpert on the primary ball handler, and not someone like Reddick who they run through multipel screens?
     
  10. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Mike Woodson is killing us right now. Shump on Jameer and Felton/Smith on Reddick. Come on Woodson. It's really simple. Put your best on the ball defender on the guy who is driving, Jameer!!!!
     
  11. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    So now we bring Novak in to replace Shump? Woodson really needs to look at these lineups and matchups again. You put Shump on the primary ball handler, you let Felton/Smith run through screens. You put Smith on the bigger guy out of the 2/3 matchup. Melo on the defensive presence at the 4/5 and Chandler on the low post threat. This is garbage matchups from Woodson
     
  12. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    We all knew last year Shump was great on the ball, average to below average off the ball. He was one of the best iso defenders in the league, yet we never put him on the primary ball handler.
     
  13. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Offensively, I like everything we did. Melo only has 5 points on 3 shots, but Chandler, Amare, Smith, Novak Felton all getting involved. We also smartly put Novak in there to counter the Magic who were immediately doubling Melo. Novak missed his two shots, but we got to get him looks.

    DEfensivey we did everything wrong starting with the coaching. Shumpert should be on Jameer the rest of the game. Shump is the best on the ball defender on the team yet we we don't let him guard the PG that is flying by Felton.
     
  14. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Granted some of Jameer's shots he made were ridiculous, fadeaway 3 off the dribble for instance, but we let him going to make him think he can make that
     
  15. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    We have lineup of Prig, Smith, Copeland, Novak, Amare
     
  16. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Part of Amare's pick and roll defense is he anticipates in the wrong spot. For instance Ish smith came around the pick and Amare took a jump outside the paint. You want to drive Ish there instead he forced Ish into the paint and at the hoop

    Basically if he held his gorund in the paint, Amare would have pushed Ish to a fallaway jumper parallel to the baseline
     
  17. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Amare looking good in the post. He's not at the point where he can beat double teams yet. He tried, but still not there. Putting the ball on the floor in a crowd, we want to avoid that.

    Prig nailed another 3 when someone went under the pick.

    Defense atrocious, but with this lineup you can call it that. And definitely someone who hijacks the offense is Copeland more than JR ever does.
     
  18. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Hmm leaving Novak out there for extended minutes at a time. I like it. He hasn't been a liability defensively (unlike every other player that has stepped on the court) so might as well let him go.

    Felton still on Nelson which is silly.
     
  19. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Felton still on Nelson, Nelson draws foul. All Nelson did was drive past Felton. Come on put Shump on Nelson!
     
  20. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    13,737
    Likes Received:
    595
    Nelson crisses up Felton, drains jumper
     

Share This Page