Nice post Barcs. Although he does often come across as a douche, to be fair, Holmes does have a history of also doing some good: he did visit the troops in Germany on a USO tour; he does some fundraising for sickle cell anemia (including donating the gloves he made the superbowl catch with, and the III and long foundation), went to Africa with Clowney, etc. It's too easy a narrative to just call him a locker room cancer and ignore his charitable efforts, of which I'm sure his teammates are aware and are often included.
All this typing, yet you cannot justify paying the man 10 million+ in 2014. For a guy that produced 700 yards in 2011 and continued to run his mouth to vets such as Brandon Moore. That is the issue here. Maclin btw won't get 8 million. He should receive a deal similar to Pierre Garcon but with a little less money. Garcon was more productive especially. Garcon get close to 1000 yards with Curtis Painter throwing to him? Painter sucks and is prob worse than Mark Sanchez. Holmes surely could learn something from Garcon in that retrospect. I'm no different then people asking Revis to leave the team or people that still continue to support Mark Sanchez, hoping he's our franchise QB. That is the issue, we are paying too much money for this guy. He's not a team player, a team player doesn't get injured then proceed to throw the football to the other team. We can get two decent WRs that can make plays for the price of Holmes's contract. I like that idea much more. Hungry young WRs that can work with our new QB in 2014.
And all that stuff is well and great, but his job is to make plays on the football field. He gets paid a tremendous amount to do so. In fact, we are going to lose a future hall of fame player in Revis bc we have committed so much in Holmes to be really great ON THE FIELD. Some people here are happy with Holmes production on the field, clearly I am not one of those people.
To say that Holmes's contract is THE reason the Jets have a problem with Revis is completely misleading. I could use the L word, but you are hopeless on this subject.
Holmes, undeserving, front loaded contract, riddled with cap penalties is very well a major reason why we are losing #24.
101, your argument is that he shouldn't get 10 million because of his production! You keep bringing stats into it and his alleged personality issues and "cancer" status. Don't blame me because I utterly refuted that and demolished your argument. Stop diverting the topic. Find me any WR in the league that averages around 6 targets a game and makes the top 20 in yardage. Good luck. The only one that comes close is Lance Moore, and he's getting targets from Drew "record breaker" Brees. Jordy Nelson did it last year, but he had Aaron Rodgers throwing it to him down field constantly. Plus you ignore the fact that NOBODY will trade for Holmes at this point so the entire thing is moot. It's not happening as much as you want it to, without the Jets getting majorly shafted and losing a critical playmaker in the process. PLEASE!!! Revis holding out in 2010 and demanding a huge contract is one of the primary reasons we had to let so much talent go after the season! If Revis didn't do that, we unquestionably would have resigned Braylon at the very least. If we lose Revis, it's because of REVIS and nobody else, except maybe his asshole agent.
^ The fact that we are unable to move underachieving Holmes bc of penalties is certainly a major reason why we are unable accommodate future hall of fame Darrelle Revis. #24 proves week after week he is worth high value in this league, #10 does not.
LOL. When you have MARK SANCHEZ throwing to you and only targeting you 6 times a game, many of which end up as INTs, you aren't going to have huge production. Sorry but that's a fact. Nobody in the NFL can do that with out an elite QB throwing to them, not even Fitzgerald, who's considered one of the best. I love selective reasoning like that. The FACT is that we have too much money tied up at CB and that is independent of Holmes. Do you deny that? The facts speak for themselves, sorry.
I said we had too much tied up at CB before the season started. Why draft Kyle Wilson with your first pick if he is only a career nickle? It's year fucking 4 Kyle get a clue. If it comes down to Cro or Revis, of course I want Revis. #24 is a gift to have on field, that does not come around often. They say the best pass defense is a pass rush. If you're going to give up your star studded FUTURE HALL OF FAMER we better get a pass rusher bc Kyle is going to need some help back there. Barcs, you like Holmes. You are obviously happy with his production, character and legitimacy of his BIG front loaded contract. I think Holmes hurts the team more than he helps. I think he is HIGHLY overvalued member of this young team. Blame schotty, sporano, rex or Sanchez, many factors, but watching his effort on the field and knowing the opportunities he was given as a captain; I really think the guy has let down himself, the fan base and the entire franchise. He is a very weak #1 receiver in the NFL proven by the way he removes himself from the team mentally and physically when plays don't go his way. Revis, "you have to have a short memory in this league. Receivers are going to make catches. You have to wipe yourself off and get ready for the next snap." I want that kind of player on my team.
It's not worth it to trade Holmes. I don't think we could get anything reaosnable for him and he's still the best receiver on the team although that's not saying much. Did we overpay him, sure looks like it. Is the guy that overpaid him gone, yep. Let's move on.
Keep talking about Holmes' production as if I already didn't demolish that argument. I'm not repeating the 6 targets a game crap again. Nobody else could do that without an elite QB. You CAN'T NAME ONE. End of argument. Holmes proved in the Dolphins game that HE CAN produce well when he gets enough targets. It's simple math. I don't care what "they" say. This is about Holmes, not Revis or Cro. They were only brought up because somebody suggested that Holmes was at fault for us possibly trading Revis, which is a load of crap. The reason is the amount of money tied up at CB. Poor QB play, plus poor game plans, plus massive turnovers, plus poor OC, plus no separation by Plaxico = weak production from Holmes. It all ties in. To say his production doesn't match his contract is a bit simple minded, and I don't mean offense by that, but it's ignoring 90% of the actual argument. Look at 2010. He had more yards in 4 less games. Having Braylon plus Sanchez playing better with less turnovers and a better oline makes a world of difference in WR production. Look at 2009. More targets and he breaks 1200 receiving yards, even though it's still not even close to the top 10 WR target #s. Targets matter and he hasn't gotten enough.
My argument ties to several points about Holmes. Attitude, production, and cost. His attitude and production does not warrant this contract. You didn't demolish my argument because YOU STILL CANNOT JUSTIFY PAYING THE MAN THIS MUCH MONEY. You cannot, no one here can say otherwise. He hasn't done jack dwiddy jack since he's signed that contract. Oh wait, he complained, bitched, yelled at the offensive line for not doing their part. That is not a team player. 6 Targets a game that are top 20 in yardage without an elite QB? Vincent Jackson, Michael Crabtree, Brian fucking Hartline, Stevie Johnson. Easily 6 targets a game, top 20 in yardage. Cecil Shorts and Blackmon are on the outside looking in. We won't get any true value for him anyway by trading him because of that awful contract. Too much money in 2014. Just too much. Take the money, get two WRs in 2014 to go along with the new QB. If Holmes wants to take a pay-cut to play #2 WR, then by all means fine. Jets can save a lot of money in 2014 and that could do a long way to signing a FA The offense is being rebuilt, no sense in keeping players that make too much that don't produce at a high level each and every week.
:rofl: Now you are just ranting and rational thought has gone out the window. You can't justify paying the money because of 2 factors. Attitude and production. Production I demolished. Attitude is debatable but he's only had a couple issues since coming to the team. You act like he complains and bitches all the time. That's simply not the case and this year proved it. Not a negative word the entire season. You really think that the line did their part in 2011? So you have resorted to making up stats and lying in a pitiful attempt to undermine Holmes. Like I said, it's a religion to you guys. Rational thoughts and valid facts do not apply. You guys must get paid to promote such outright falsehoods!! (darksider logic) Vincent Jackson: 9.1 targets per game. Crabtree: 7.9 Hartline: 8 Stevie Johnson: 9.25 Shorts: 6.8 Blackmon: 8.3 (ranked 29th) Cecil shorts is the closest one and he's not top 20. It's not impossible, it's just incredibly rare without an elite QB, and even with one it is still rare :lol: Nice try. Are you sure, you're a Jets fan? It's one thing to always assume the worst, but to make up stats to slander a player you don't like is a whole new level of low.
I'm not ranting, I'm giving you facts. Holmes is a dick and his 700 yards in 2011 - he has no say in anything, go out there and produce, he's failed to do so. Where's the Holmes we saw in 2010? I haven't seen the guy in like 20 games (Not counting the games he was on the IR). You didn't prove anything, and you're still dancing around his contract issue. 2014 cut Holmes, get 2 WRs for the price of one. Draft new play-makers in the draft. Look at what the Colts did with Luck. 2 new TEs, and several new WRs. Reggie Wayne was the constant, but they drafted new play-makers to work with Luck. Result? 10 win season and a playoff berth. I am sick of complaining WRs. 12 million for a WR that can't stay healthy, throws the football to the defenders when he gets injured and throws his teammates under the bus? You have got to be kidding ... 2011 the offensive line didn't pull the entire weight I agree, when we needed Holmes the most in 2011 he didn't show up. remember the Eagles game? You really want a WR that acts like that? Dude go on NFL.COM and look up the total number of receiving yards. So just because they average over 9 TPG, they should be eliminated from the conversation? :lol: give me a break dude. I bet you Holmes gets cut in 2014. Gabbert, Henne, Fitzpatrick - these Qbs aren't world beaters - Sanchez was in the same class as these guys yet their WRs produced more. I guess we can blame it on the offensive line, QB, and OC right? How's that dunce cap fitting you? Never seen someone love Holmes as much as you. Pretty sad.
Our differences here is that I believe you think the Jets will be a competitive team and playoff contender next season. I however do not. Next season won't be pretty that's why in 2014 it will be time to cut some players on the offensive side. Sanchez and Holmes.
You have got to be fucking kidding me!!!! Do you not understand the point I am making? Do I really need to spell it out like I'm talking to child? WR receiving yards IS DIRECTLY RELATED to the amount of targets they get. More targets = more yards. THIS IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT. Holmes was not targeted enough, he only got 6.3 targets per game, which is absurdly low for #1 WR. THIS IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT. This is why I compared him to the other WRs in the league, and clearly proved that no WR will ever get into the top 20 with TPG being that low, unless they have an elite QB throwing them the ball, and even when they do, its extremely rare. THIS IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT. That is why his production seemed low, not to mention Sanchez committing so many turnovers, and the line sucking. He was under utilized, and you have failed to grasp this very basic point. Your argument about his production is null and void. Stop repeating yourself over and over saying the same exact thing. YOU ARE WRONG. :rofl: Yeah I'm wearing the dunce cap, when you're the guy who doesn't even understand the concept of targets per game and how it increases or decreases your production as a WR. "Durrrrr, targets per game have nothing to do with total yardage" :lol: You really want to keep this debate going? You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper. Give it up. You dislike Holmes because a few silly incidents that you are completely over exaggerating. Prediction of your next post: "He's a horrible teammate and he only had 700 yards!!!! He's isn't worth the money!!!! He's an asshole and he's selfish. No I don't have any resources or facts, I'm just gonna keep ranting and repeating the same thing over and over and pretend like Barcs didn't just totally demolish my production argument!!!"
I am not a huge fan of Holmes but the fact remains he his bet offensive weapon. There is just no debating that. So unless the jets get someone better why the hell would you get rid of him?
Holmes is not a true number 1 receiver, but he's our best playmaker, and he's someone that I think could thrive in the west coast offense, he and Kerley plus Edwards on the outside for those deep passes. Just upgrade the QB position and we'll be okay imo.
I am convinced most of hte basis for the Holmes Hatred Syndrome is based on personal distaste for Holmes's perceived personality, with "perceived" being a key term here. It has little or nothing to do with his production on the field. Sure, some will add that his attitude hurt the team in 11, and from that that he's a locker room cancer and all that overstated nonsense. Others wil argue from flimsy at best evidence that he does not meet some minimum standard of performance, but flimsy since at best such argument is based on stats and the like in which they have not isolated Holmes from other variables, such as Sanchez, the playcalling and how much attention the D felt compelled to pay to other receivers and the running game. But at bottom it is about how they don't like Holmes personally. Which is a ridiculous basis for all the hyped up hatred of him. Moving on here...
